Neutering after 1 year old
I just started taking Coco to a dog park to socialize him. We went there twice and found out that he wants to dominate everyone (dogs). He does so well with males, very friendly, and play together, but he just gets so aggressive and dominant with females! This is weired! Do you think it's because he wasn't fixed at 6mo old?
If I do get him fixed, does this dominant behavior go away?
If I do get him fixed, does this dominant behavior go away?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mel K on -
I find that it depends on the dog. Some habits get so ingrained by the time someone decides to neuter that it doesn't do a thing.
My brother refused to get his dog neutered until he was nearly two. He now still acts like an intact dog including the 'high alert' general attitude.
Unless the animal is used for breed standard shows I always urge to get them 'fixed' by 7 months of age as it prevents many bad habits from forming and it keeps them from developing the 'anxious' attitude.
Just my .02
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Permalink Reply by Mieko Kwiatkowski on -
Thank you Melissa! In the back of my mind, I want him to have his offspring. Just because if he dies before me, his baby will still be there. But then I have to have a female corgi too. That's gonna be alot of work.. Still have some thinking to do before I make the decision. Thank you for your advice though. If getting him neuter does not affect his behavior that much, I might not. He's so loud but does not bite others. It's not harmful as long as he is not violent to others, is it? What do you think?
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Permalink Reply by Beth on -
Have you had Coco since he was a puppy? Was he socialized with other dogs then? Socialization windows are quite small and while an older dog can certainly learn better behaviors with new experiences, it's easiest to socialize a puppy.
Intact males are more likely to be dog-aggressive than neutered ones, but usually dogs are more inclined to be aggressive towards the same sex and are more tolerant of the opposite sex. Could you perhaps describe what types of behaviors you are referring to when you say he is "aggressive and dominant" with females? Is he biting? Growling? Trying to mount them?
BTW, many dog parks prohibit intact animals older than puppies, and even if they don't it is perhaps not the best place to socialize an intact male. What would you do if someone else was there with an intact female who happened to be coming into heat? Would you be able to safely separate them before they tied? Things can happen very quickly.
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Permalink Reply by Mieko Kwiatkowski on
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That's true, Beth. As much as I want coco to have his baby in the future, it won't be "a" baby, babiES! With the issue of so many abandoned dogs out there these days, that might not be a good idea.
He didn't get to socialized with many other dogs in one place. He's lived with another female dog in a house for a year and a half, and to me they were like a brother and a sister. This is why I'm in such a shock to see him trying to dominate female dogs in the park. He does not bite or attack them. He growl at them so loud and just knock them down. Of course they are very loud and it looks scary. He doesn't hump on them though. He's very quiet with males and play with them.
This is very strange, isn't it??
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Permalink Reply by Mieko Kwiatkowski on
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And yes, I got him when he was 3mo old.
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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I will second what Joanna said. The socialization window closes, as I have heard it, at 16 weeks and after that what would come naturally needs to be trained/ handled in a more supervised setting. Take him to a quieter place with a few well-socialized dogs, if you can, and intervene if his behavior is too much. Just observe quietly for awhile, though, unless there are fights because they can sometimes sort it out on their own and a dog-socialized, non-aggressive female may teach Coco more in 2 seconds than you can teach him in a year. Growling and knocking over could be just as much "I want to play but I don't really know how" as aggression, but it depends on the growl and I can't tell from here.
As far as breeding, only you can make that decision but again Joanna makes some good points. Parents don't dictate the personality of the pups, though they do influence it. Before we got Maddie, we looked at another adult with a different breeder. We didn't take her as she is the biggest couch potato, the most mellow Corgi I've met. She hardly even acts like a Corgi. And yet her mother was an agility champion and her daughter, who I met, is a real little typical spitfire of a Corgi girl.
Our female, Madison, is the 3/4 aunt of our male and their personalities are pretty opposite each other. And while Madison is a fairly submissive bitch, and one who is happy to play if toys are about but will not force the issue if you don't start the game, the breeder ended up placing her one-year-old daughter in an agility home (she still co-owns her) because she turned out to be so very high-energy and eager to go all the time. Maddie is not that way at all. With normal activity, she will just lay on the couch next to you at night.
As far a the risks go, our Madison needed a C-section when she had her litter before coming to us. There was another litter born soon before Jack's and the mom needed an emergency spay because she was bleeding and then the pups needed to be hand-fed, with feedings every couple hours. One poster here as a dog who was the only survivor of its whole litter; the rest died of an illness. Breeding is risky and hard work and heart-breaking, so please think through all aspects before making your decision!
Good luck with Coco. If you are not breeding him, he should be neutered for his own health (cancer-risk) and the safety of any intact females around; if one comes into heat near you, he may get out and run into the road or something as well. But either way, I think just backing up and socializing him more the way you would a puppy, with small groups of dogs that you know to be dog-social, might help his problem. And if he's being a terror, step in, correct him calmly and remove him briefly from the situation, then try again.
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Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on -
The idea that neutering changes behavior is SUCH a huge myth. Even vets and trainers will tell you that intact dogs are more aggressive or somehow dangerous. It's nonsense. Having reproductive organs is the natural state of a dog; it's not odd and it certainly doesn't make them poor pets or companions or unable to get along with other dogs. Go to any show breeder's home and you'll see multiple intact dogs living together, and somehow we manage not to get eaten :). I had my rescue boy neutered relatively young because he was a rescue and I didn't want anyone getting the impression that I was irresponsible for having an unneutered dachshund-Jack Russell running with the show dogs, but it was only to remove that impression. It didn't change his behavior a bit and I would never have expected it to, and I would have been happy to leave him intact.
Aggression and socialization problems are TRAINING problems, not testicle problems. The ONLY behavior issue that is solved by neutering is male-to-male aggression when a female is in heat. That's it. And, honestly, most of the time that's something that can be solved by a come-to-Jesus conversation with both boys about how they're allowed to behave and who is the biggest bitch in the house.
It sounds to me like Coco doesn't understand how to behave with other dogs. The socialization window closes at around twelve weeks and ever after that they have more difficulty learning how to be with dogs or humans. Socialization is something that way too many people, including otherwise good breeders, don't emphasize, and before you even realize it you've got a handicapped dog. You may want to introduce him to other dogs in a more supervised and positive environment, like an obedience class or supervised playgroup, or find a good dog daycare where they can help him learn to play appropriately with other dogs.
In terms of breeding him, it's up to you. I can tell you that breeding Pems is a BIG deal. He will need to have his hips, eyes, and thyroid checked, and will need a DM test too. He will almost certainly be at risk for DM (degenerative myelopathy) because most Pems are, so you'll need to be comfortable selling puppies that can develop progressive paralysis. Any potential mate will need the same checks. Good breeders warranty all puppies, replacing any that have issues, and take puppies back for their entire lives. Just those few aspects mean that breeding is ruinously expensive, and then add in showing the dogs (which is, in my opinion, a must for a breeder) and it becomes a hole you shovel money into and your heart will get broken multiple times. And, I have to say, everybody says they want a puppy because they love the dog they own so much. But I've NEVER gotten a puppy that was just like the parent. I can be absolutely head-over-heels for the mom or dad and make zero connection with whatever puppy I keep. I've had many more "heart dogs" come from purchase or adoption than from breeding.
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Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on -
That is great Joanna! When I first read this the thing that came to mind was obedience classes. I don't know anything about intact male dogs but I do know that most of us need a little help with training. Even after years of classes I still like to go because the class situation is the perfect place to work on issues.
My father raised and showed (field trails) beagles when I was growing up and there really isn't any money in it. It is a labor of love. I respect what breeders do but can not imagine ever taking that on.
It sounds to me like CoCo would be a much happier guy with some training. It is really worth the effort!
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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We had an intact male Labrador Retreiver when I was a teenager, and he was the mellowest, sweetest dog. Not an aggressive bone in his body.
That said, every dog is different and some males get more studly than others! LOL. But I agree this doesn't sound so much like an "intact male" issue so much as a dog who is not sure how to handle himself in a rough-and-tumble group at the dog park.
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Permalink Reply by Mieko Kwiatkowski on
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Thank you everyone for your knowledge and advice! I learned that neutering is not the only thing I should be considering for Coco's socializing improvement.
But for other dog's in the park and coco's safety, I will get him neutered soon. I guess dogs can't be like us human with family and kids and grand kids. Yeah, how am I gonna take care of his family of 5 or 10??
I'm gonna have to search where I should take him to for the surgery because his vet is charging about $150. I've heard before that neutering is around $40?
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