Protein - MyCorgi.com2024-03-29T10:57:53Zhttp://mycorgi.com/forum/topics/protein?commentId=1150197%3AComment%3A1420160&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThanks for the discussion Mel…tag:mycorgi.com,2012-01-03:1150197:Comment:14201602012-01-03T13:26:53.029ZJane Christensenhttp://mycorgi.com/profile/JaneChristensen
<p>Thanks for the discussion Melissa...I think we feed the same food and I am going to switch back to a lower protein also. I have to watch it though cuz my one can't have chicken but the salmon will be good:)</p>
<p>Thanks for the discussion Melissa...I think we feed the same food and I am going to switch back to a lower protein also. I have to watch it though cuz my one can't have chicken but the salmon will be good:)</p> No I would not make one anima…tag:mycorgi.com,2012-01-03:1150197:Comment:14200412012-01-03T02:34:01.424ZMegan Chttp://mycorgi.com/profile/MeganCadena
<p>No I would not make one animal suffer just because one had in the past. That is a very different issue from pet food where there are hundreds of excellent foods available that were not trialed using less than ethical practices. </p>
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<p>My general feelings on animal research...</p>
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<p>It must be necessary for quality of life of animals/people. Not for make-up, selling pet food, etc. And they should do the study in the least harmful way possible. Science Diet does manage to…</p>
<p>No I would not make one animal suffer just because one had in the past. That is a very different issue from pet food where there are hundreds of excellent foods available that were not trialed using less than ethical practices. </p>
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<p>My general feelings on animal research...</p>
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<p>It must be necessary for quality of life of animals/people. Not for make-up, selling pet food, etc. And they should do the study in the least harmful way possible. Science Diet does manage to design the same types of prescription diets while not doing invasive studies. Feeding trials can be used to study diets and "prove" them. Or it can be done through owner surveys/case studies. Diseases can be studied using animals that have already contracted the disease during their normal lifespan. There have been studies done on joint damage in horses where they surgically damaged the joints and there have been much better studies where they looked at treatment options by using horses that had been injured during their riding careers. But it takes more work, community outreach, etc to find owners/animals to participate than just ordering up a batch of Beagles and performing some surgery. There are times where it is necessary (such as in the case of your arthritis), there are so many regulations for both human and animal research subjects now as there were so many excesses and cruelties being done in the name of research. </p>
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<p>I will not reply on this topic again to help keep from going off topic any more. But I would be more than happy to continue the discussion through private message. </p>
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<p></p> I have always used higher rat…tag:mycorgi.com,2012-01-03:1150197:Comment:14199712012-01-03T00:37:05.419ZMelvin Brockhttp://mycorgi.com/profile/MelvinBrock
I have always used higher rates during more active parts of the year and cutting back during winter( down times) .
I have always used higher rates during more active parts of the year and cutting back during winter( down times) . I am sticking with the same b…tag:mycorgi.com,2012-01-02:1150197:Comment:14190132012-01-02T20:02:05.137ZMelissa and Franklin!http://mycorgi.com/profile/Melissa919
<p>I am sticking with the same brand of food, they just make 2 different protein levels and I have switched back and forth between the 2 protein levels in the past. Just trying to decide which formula to buy this time.</p>
<p>I am sticking with the same brand of food, they just make 2 different protein levels and I have switched back and forth between the 2 protein levels in the past. Just trying to decide which formula to buy this time.</p> I have to follow-up with your…tag:mycorgi.com,2012-01-02:1150197:Comment:14192852012-01-02T19:57:33.464ZMelissa and Franklin!http://mycorgi.com/profile/Melissa919
<p>I have to follow-up with your statement Beth, just to also say that many of the veterinary universities induce injury/illness on animals for research, but 9 times out of 10 it is for HUMAN medical research. They study animals to try to link them to human diseases, the results of the studies are then also applied to veterinary medicine. I live about 10 minutes from UC Davis and have toured their research facilities. What you see there with the monkeys, dogs, cats, rats, and livestock that…</p>
<p>I have to follow-up with your statement Beth, just to also say that many of the veterinary universities induce injury/illness on animals for research, but 9 times out of 10 it is for HUMAN medical research. They study animals to try to link them to human diseases, the results of the studies are then also applied to veterinary medicine. I live about 10 minutes from UC Davis and have toured their research facilities. What you see there with the monkeys, dogs, cats, rats, and livestock that they study is horribly sad, but I also must say, they do it to advance medical research. They developed heart valve transplants from doing the research on pigs. They developed many of the more advanced surgical procedures by researching livestock, dogs, cats, and even primates. They have been doing neurology studies there and studying the spinal cord by destroying the spinal cords of monkeys and then killing the monkeys to see what effect these injuries and treatments had on them. While I hate to see it done, I know plenty of people who have had brain tumors removed, neck and back surgery performed, and have completed cancer treatment. Not one of these people would still be alive today if t weren't for animal research. And without nutritional studies, how would these commercial diets even be developed? I certainly wouldn't want to buy food that "may or may not" meet my pets nutritional needs because it has never had any long term testing. </p> Just to continue being cynica…tag:mycorgi.com,2012-01-02:1150197:Comment:14193422012-01-02T19:05:23.036ZAber, Ragnar and Kelsohttp://mycorgi.com/profile/ShannonRogers
<p>Just to continue being cynical (because it's fun :)---really I mean no disrespect). We are currently searching for a new vet, so I'm probably especially cynical about them at this point. I think vets are very much like medical doctors for people. I believe and have personally met many doctors who didn't go into the profession for the love of people--they did it for the money. They take on just as much debt and they aren't going to take that debt on out of pure altruistic love of…</p>
<p>Just to continue being cynical (because it's fun :)---really I mean no disrespect). We are currently searching for a new vet, so I'm probably especially cynical about them at this point. I think vets are very much like medical doctors for people. I believe and have personally met many doctors who didn't go into the profession for the love of people--they did it for the money. They take on just as much debt and they aren't going to take that debt on out of pure altruistic love of humanity. Certainly some do, but many want to be able to pay those loans off AND drive nice cars and have big houses. In very rural areas, I'm sure they do end up making less, but I've never seen one hurting for cash, and the new terrible vet who has joined our now ex-vet's practice sold a $350,000 house in Colorado to move out here. She's maybe in her mid-30s so I think she was doing pretty well for herself. Perhaps there's the clue to it all: the ones motivated by money-earning potential are the ones who aren't all that good at it. They don't take the time to really think about their practice and all that goes along with treating animals.</p>
<p>And as for nutrition training, I haven't met many doctors who know much about nutrition. It's actually fairly shocking what they don't know. </p>
<p>Finally, and this is another beef I have with our health care system in general for everyone. Because health care is a for profit venture, and many of the aspects involved have shareholders to keep happy, I think by and large medicine has become a system that treats illnesses and is not very interesting in curing them. Drug companies can make a lot of money by putting people on maintenance drugs for life for all sorts of conditions, but they won't make nearly as much if those conditions actually get cured. As long as healthcare remains a for-profit gambit, I don't see this changing. </p>
<p>I recently read this article, which was very revealing and didn't really help make me feel more charitably inclined in my opinions:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1232217/Why-Im-ashamed-vet-shocking-expose-profession-puts-pets-painful-unnecessary-treatments-fleece-trusting-owners.html" target="_blank">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1232217/Why-Im-ashamed-vet-shocking-expose-profession-puts-pets-painful-unnecessary-treatments-fleece-trusting-owners.html</a></p>
<p>All this being said, I have had at least one wonderful dedicated vet.</p> I would have to ask you that…tag:mycorgi.com,2012-01-02:1150197:Comment:14192742012-01-02T18:41:45.669ZDonna and Lillyhttp://mycorgi.com/profile/DonnaMahoney
<p>I would have to ask you that if he doing well on the food you are feeding him.....why change? Is he too hyper with this food? Is he having enough exercise to off set the protein? I always thought...if it aint broke, dont fix it.....</p>
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<p>I would have to ask you that if he doing well on the food you are feeding him.....why change? Is he too hyper with this food? Is he having enough exercise to off set the protein? I always thought...if it aint broke, dont fix it.....</p>
<p></p> This is really getting off-to…tag:mycorgi.com,2012-01-02:1150197:Comment:14192662012-01-02T16:30:41.905ZBethhttp://mycorgi.com/profile/Beth306
<p>This is really getting off-topic. I believe those are the studies referred to by AVMA and the Canadian Humane Societies. Those were medical studies, not true feeding studies. I understand how you feel. I guess my uncomfortable question to you would be:</p>
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<p>1) If your dog had kidney failure, would you refuse any treatment discovered as a result of induced kidney failure in dogs? I know that many major veterinary universities at least occasionally induce injuries/illnesses in…</p>
<p>This is really getting off-topic. I believe those are the studies referred to by AVMA and the Canadian Humane Societies. Those were medical studies, not true feeding studies. I understand how you feel. I guess my uncomfortable question to you would be:</p>
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<p>1) If your dog had kidney failure, would you refuse any treatment discovered as a result of induced kidney failure in dogs? I know that many major veterinary universities at least occasionally induce injuries/illnesses in lab setting to carefully track treatment under controlled settings, in addition to the research they do on volunteers with animals who already have the condition. This, for instance, is a study where colic was induced in horses:</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2042-3306.1983.tb01772.x/abstract" target="_blank">http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2042-3306.1983.tb01772...</a></p>
<p>I've seen many others as well. It is morally difficult, to say the least, but again most of the studies you are referring to were medical studies, not feeding studies.</p>
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<p>2) There is a population of mice genetically engineered to carry a form of arthritis that I have. There are lots of lab animals induced with lots of diseases, and I'll bet every single one of us routinely uses medications for which lab animals were intentionally sickened and later died. I understand your discomfort, but again just stressing that the studies you refer to had to do with treating animal illnesses/ health problems, not with routine feeding. And Iam's was one of several sponsors; they were not commissioned by Iam's.</p> They got in trouble with PETA…tag:mycorgi.com,2012-01-02:1150197:Comment:14189892012-01-02T15:46:09.950ZMegan Chttp://mycorgi.com/profile/MeganCadena
<p>They got in trouble with PETA and the papers for the practices going on at the labs that violated proper treatment for lab animals. But what was in full compliance with the law and the AVMA was the "properly done" research that was published in the journals. I.E 10 dogs livers were surgically compromised so they could study liver failure, putting cats into hepatic lipidosis to study that disease, etc. And then of course destroying the animals after. While I dislike Science Diet as a food…</p>
<p>They got in trouble with PETA and the papers for the practices going on at the labs that violated proper treatment for lab animals. But what was in full compliance with the law and the AVMA was the "properly done" research that was published in the journals. I.E 10 dogs livers were surgically compromised so they could study liver failure, putting cats into hepatic lipidosis to study that disease, etc. And then of course destroying the animals after. While I dislike Science Diet as a food and a company, their research is much more humane. In some cases animal testing is necessary but not for pet food or make-up.</p>
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<p>Neither PETA or HSUS are my favorite organizations (I own and ride horses too) and they go way too far in many cases. </p> And this is from PETA's websi…tag:mycorgi.com,2012-01-02:1150197:Comment:14192632012-01-02T15:15:40.777ZBethhttp://mycorgi.com/profile/Beth306
<p>And this is from PETA's website, where you can also find info on making your cat a vegetarian and on the cruelty of crating.</p>
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<p><a href="http://www.peta.org/about/why-peta/pets.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.peta.org/about/why-peta/pets.aspx</a></p>
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<p>We at PETA very much love the animal companions who share our homes, but we believe that it would have been in the animals' best interests if the institution of "pet keeping"—i.e., breeding animals to be kept and regarded…</p>
<p>And this is from PETA's website, where you can also find info on making your cat a vegetarian and on the cruelty of crating.</p>
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<p><a href="http://www.peta.org/about/why-peta/pets.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.peta.org/about/why-peta/pets.aspx</a></p>
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<p>We at PETA very much love the animal companions who share our homes, but we believe that it would have been in the animals' best interests if the institution of "pet keeping"—i.e., breeding animals to be kept and regarded as "pets"—never existed. The international pastime of domesticating animals has created an overpopulation crisis; as a result, millions of unwanted animals are destroyed every year as "surplus."</p>
<p>This selfish desire to possess animals and receive love from them causes immeasurable suffering, which results from manipulating their breeding, selling or giving them away casually, and depriving them of the opportunity to engage in their natural behavior. They are restricted to human homes, where they must obey commands and can only eat, drink, and even urinate when humans allow them to.</p>