What is working conformation? From the side. - MyCorgi.com2024-03-28T21:43:17Zhttp://mycorgi.com/forum/topics/what-is-working-conformation?commentId=1150197%3AComment%3A646327&feed=yes&xn_auth=noOkay folks, great topic but i…tag:mycorgi.com,2010-04-12:1150197:Comment:6482762010-04-12T14:40:59.483ZSam Tsanghttp://mycorgi.com/profile/ceo
Okay folks, great topic but its gone far away from its original intent, it looks like a few of you need to settle things between yourself privately, some of you have reputations to keep, be respectful.<br />
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<b>If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.<br />
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Okay folks, great topic but its gone far away from its original intent, it looks like a few of you need to settle things between yourself privately, some of you have reputations to keep, be respectful.<br />
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<b>If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.<br />
</b> @ Kerry - see my comment in d…tag:mycorgi.com,2010-04-12:1150197:Comment:6482452010-04-12T13:06:59.871ZMagnoliaFlyhttp://mycorgi.com/profile/MagnoliaFly
@ Kerry - see my comment in detail wherein I explain why I believe it is too easy to get.
@ Kerry - see my comment in detail wherein I explain why I believe it is too easy to get. There are lots of things I wo…tag:mycorgi.com,2010-04-12:1150197:Comment:6482432010-04-12T13:02:49.686ZMagnoliaFlyhttp://mycorgi.com/profile/MagnoliaFly
There are lots of things I would change in the test if I could, but I'm not on the AKC committee that does those things and they'd probably reject them because they want to make money on passing dogs.<br />
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I think the dogs should be required to re-take the test every 3 years or so since we all know behavior changes as a dog grows up. A puppy tested at 12 months of age may be a very different dog in two or three years. They note this in their material but don't require the dog re-take the…
There are lots of things I would change in the test if I could, but I'm not on the AKC committee that does those things and they'd probably reject them because they want to make money on passing dogs.<br />
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I think the dogs should be required to re-take the test every 3 years or so since we all know behavior changes as a dog grows up. A puppy tested at 12 months of age may be a very different dog in two or three years. They note this in their material but don't require the dog re-take the test.<br />
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Where I work we use it more as a manners class and a prep course for dogs looking to do pet therapy. The pet therapy test is much harder and more stringent. The CGC prepares them for it and for most families it helps them understand the importance of having a dog accept strangers, greet politely, accept grooming, follow simple commands pretty reliably and isn't that what every family wants?<br />
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And you are right - I'm just saying I wouldn't consider it a test of temperament even though many people consider it as such. Shame on me? LOL
The AKC set…tag:mycorgi.com,2010-04-12:1150197:Comment:6482402010-04-12T12:57:48.974ZMagnoliaFlyhttp://mycorgi.com/profile/MagnoliaFly
Shame on me? LOL<br />
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The AKC sets the standard at what they consider a "passing" dog. Dogs are given the opportunity to try again if they fail a certain part of the exam. It isn't considered a formal obedience test and I certainly wouldn't consider it a test of temperament at all. It just looks at simple skills to see if the dog can perform some commands somewhat reliably, seem to be under control and not aggressive.<br />
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Aggressive dogs always fail the test. But I've seen some dogs pass the test that…
Shame on me? LOL<br />
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The AKC sets the standard at what they consider a "passing" dog. Dogs are given the opportunity to try again if they fail a certain part of the exam. It isn't considered a formal obedience test and I certainly wouldn't consider it a test of temperament at all. It just looks at simple skills to see if the dog can perform some commands somewhat reliably, seem to be under control and not aggressive.<br />
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Aggressive dogs always fail the test. But I've seen some dogs pass the test that I would question if they were truly under control or not. (Not by my evaluation but by other CGC evaluators that I've sat in on.)<br />
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Had the dogs been tested under stricter evaluations like the Delta society's test for therapy dogs they would have failed because there is no second chance in that test. It is very strict with its testing skills. I would consider this a more applicable "temperament" test if what you wanted to see was a dog that was calm and under control at all times.<br />
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It also depends on what the dog is being used for. A high-drive agility dog may not be appropriate for pet therapy and rightly so. Doesn't mean they're aggressive.<br />
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I never said the test was a sham. I said it was too easy to get. I can't "raise the bar" since I'm not head of AKC and I don't set the testing guidelines. Thank you Joanna...I found th…tag:mycorgi.com,2010-04-10:1150197:Comment:6471562010-04-10T19:18:09.208ZRILEY, MAGGIE and Christine Kemphttp://mycorgi.com/profile/ChristineMKemp446
Thank you Joanna...I found this very interesting as well as useful information.
Thank you Joanna...I found this very interesting as well as useful information. Agreed. The CGC was never mea…tag:mycorgi.com,2010-04-10:1150197:Comment:6471112010-04-10T16:30:36.473ZJoanna Kimballhttp://mycorgi.com/profile/JoannaKimball
Agreed. The CGC was never meant to be a temperament test or a soundness test; it's not a "title." It's a recognition that you put in enough effort with your dog that he's polite and under your control.<br />
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"Temperament" is a funny thing anyway - what the old dog breeders mean is "if you menace me, I'll attack you." What the vast majority of pet people mean is "if you menace me, I'll wag and lick your face." I read something by a Malamute breeder yesterday, talking about how she had worked for ten…
Agreed. The CGC was never meant to be a temperament test or a soundness test; it's not a "title." It's a recognition that you put in enough effort with your dog that he's polite and under your control.<br />
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"Temperament" is a funny thing anyway - what the old dog breeders mean is "if you menace me, I'll attack you." What the vast majority of pet people mean is "if you menace me, I'll wag and lick your face." I read something by a Malamute breeder yesterday, talking about how she had worked for ten years to reliably produce Mals who would never, ever go after another dog and who were easygoing and calm in the house. She, obviously, felt that that was a successful and "correct" temperament. I was completely appalled. Thank you. That is exactly wh…tag:mycorgi.com,2010-04-10:1150197:Comment:6470862010-04-10T15:05:59.256ZShepdoghttp://mycorgi.com/profile/WPatten
Thank you. That is exactly what I meant. It is not a sham and I don't think the instructors are a sham either -- I do do it because I like having the title, it's a fun thing to participate in and part of learning more about my dog and it allows me to go to a lot of hotels and into places that allow a dog in with a GCG. :)<br />
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The dog that I personally took in there that I am talking about was a rescue dog that spent his entire first year and a half of life in a bathroom where people threw him food…
Thank you. That is exactly what I meant. It is not a sham and I don't think the instructors are a sham either -- I do do it because I like having the title, it's a fun thing to participate in and part of learning more about my dog and it allows me to go to a lot of hotels and into places that allow a dog in with a GCG. :)<br />
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The dog that I personally took in there that I am talking about was a rescue dog that spent his entire first year and a half of life in a bathroom where people threw him food and left him un-neutered because they thought they were going to make a fortune breeding Toy Aussies. He could be aggressive as heck towards people when he didn't think things were going his way. First things first were to snip him, and second was to at least make him a productive member of society so he could go on and live a happier life with someone who cared about him.<br />
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We worked and worked and worked with him, and I took him to every class under the sun that I could. He passed the CGC with a lot of work - but one of the things you have to remember is that it is a class and a set series of exercises -- not the real world. He didn't have anyone at that test run up to him acting drunk, or kicking at him if he barked at their dog, etc... not that I want that to happen, but where my other dogs would have acted appropriately, he would have likely flown off the handle. That's all I meant by not stable.<br />
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It is a tricky thing to truly test. And every instructor is different as to how they interpret the handbook. But it is not a true temperament test -- it's basically a good citizen test. I wouldn't expect you to pull a true working dog prospect from it (and in fact, some working dogs might fail outright for the stranger test and I wouldn't hold it against them...) but I do think it's a grand thing to go and do with all your dogs. CGC is not meant to be just a…tag:mycorgi.com,2010-04-10:1150197:Comment:6470752010-04-10T14:06:37.413ZBethhttp://mycorgi.com/profile/Beth306
CGC is not meant to be just a handful of obedience commands. I just looked for my copy of the evaluator guidelines from the test and could not find it. I think I still have it here somewhere but I'm in a hurry to get out the door. Anyway, I was a little surprised we passed because we needed to repeat two things twice (both involved Jack getting a little too eager to want to see the tester's dog). And then I read the note to the instructor on the official form and there was something to the…
CGC is not meant to be just a handful of obedience commands. I just looked for my copy of the evaluator guidelines from the test and could not find it. I think I still have it here somewhere but I'm in a hurry to get out the door. Anyway, I was a little surprised we passed because we needed to repeat two things twice (both involved Jack getting a little too eager to want to see the tester's dog). And then I read the note to the instructor on the official form and there was something to the effect that the overriding theme was that the dog was good-natured and manageable, and repeating an exercise can be permitted if it does not interfere with that requirement.<br />
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We did TDI at the same time which has a few extra test items, but the CGC does require the dog to allow a stranger to brush it, look at its teeth and in its ears. It requires the dog to stay calm in the face of sudden noises and high activity, and it does require the dog to stay calmly with a stranger while the handler leaves the area for at least 3 minutes. So it's not a temperament test, but an unstable dog should not easily pass either.<br />
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Since we did TDI we also had wheel chairs and stuff, but basically in the test they had someone doing figure eights in a wheel chair, someone walking around with a walker coughing loudly and muttering an stomping the walker, a child skipping around singing and someone else rattling bags or something, and we needed to wander around through that noisy threatening group on a loose leash without the dog appearing unnerved or unduly distracted.<br />
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They also do things like pop open umbrellas, drop a metal pan and as an addition for TDI, make you walk past food on the floor.<br />
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So it's not really testing obedience. A very skilled handler could get a beast of a dog to pass with a lot of work, but the test is designed more for novices who want to do other things with their dogs. I took this comment to mean t…tag:mycorgi.com,2010-04-10:1150197:Comment:6470712010-04-10T13:03:45.813ZSky and Lylahttp://mycorgi.com/profile/SkyandPuppy
I took this comment to mean that the CGC is not a temperament test, not that it is a sham. I don't think the AKC ever intended the CGC to be a temperament test, it is merely a test of whether or not a dog can perform a handful of obedience commands. Temperament would be a tricky thing to really and truly test as so many ill tempered dogs are still obedient and can be trained to do just about anything. I don't, however, think anyone should or would call a test worthless for not doing something…
I took this comment to mean that the CGC is not a temperament test, not that it is a sham. I don't think the AKC ever intended the CGC to be a temperament test, it is merely a test of whether or not a dog can perform a handful of obedience commands. Temperament would be a tricky thing to really and truly test as so many ill tempered dogs are still obedient and can be trained to do just about anything. I don't, however, think anyone should or would call a test worthless for not doing something it was never meant to do. You know... that's interestin…tag:mycorgi.com,2010-04-10:1150197:Comment:6470262010-04-10T02:38:30.833ZShepdoghttp://mycorgi.com/profile/WPatten
You know... that's interesting to hear from an evaluator. I've thought that myself (and yes, my dogs have it on there because -- well, why not, right?) I see a lot of dogs who have a CGC that I sure wouldn't consider stable by any means (and I had one years ago that easily passed that CGC but wouldn't have ever passed a true "temperament" test whatsoever. He was a mental train wreck (a tough rescue) but he could do all the bells and whistles he needed to do while in the class and for the…
You know... that's interesting to hear from an evaluator. I've thought that myself (and yes, my dogs have it on there because -- well, why not, right?) I see a lot of dogs who have a CGC that I sure wouldn't consider stable by any means (and I had one years ago that easily passed that CGC but wouldn't have ever passed a true "temperament" test whatsoever. He was a mental train wreck (a tough rescue) but he could do all the bells and whistles he needed to do while in the class and for the pass... but I was on top of him 24 -7.