Hi all!
I'm new and I hope I'm posting this in the right area.

Would anyone be able to recommend a reputable PWC breeder in North America that either does not dock, or is willing to leave a tail on a puppy like they do in many places in Europe and Australia where docking is banned? This gets tricky because I'm in Ontario, Canada where docking is the norm. I realise docking is a hot button issue and I don't seek to change anyone's mind on this, it's just one of the things I'm looking for in a puppy and I don't mean anything by the request. I think undocked corgis have gorgeous tails and since I'm not going to show in conformation I'd prefer one with a tail.

If I have to look at getting a corgi from outside my country I will, but I would definitely prefer to avoid shipping and be able to meet the sire and dam, the breeder, and their other dogs if I can.

Obviously I also want a healthy puppy with healthy parents and a good temperament, so I'm not willing to just go to any person who claims they're a breeder and is willing to leave tails on (hence why I'm here asking for possible references). I plan on getting back into agility and other activities I used to do with my last dog so the puppy needs to be of sound mind and body so we can have fun for many years to come.

I've been doing my research and I'm aiming for sometime next year as my ideal time to raise a puppy. I'm not in a hurry to get a puppy and am willing to be on a waiting list for a year or more to find the right companion for me.

I've been discouraged lately because when I've talked to some breeders, some have suddenly turned unfriendly when I ask if they are willing to leave a tail on a puppy. I understand that it's a difficult decision for breeders because if I were to back out of getting a puppy they would have a tailed corgi that does not conform to the North American standards. I can't really blame them for being cautious. It's just unsettling that I can't ask questions...

I guess what I'm saying is I would love to find a breeder that won't mind me being completely honest when I ask questions and tell them what I'm looking for. I really mean them no disrespect, and I understand why the breed standard is important for them to uphold.

If anyone knows of a breeder that matches what I'm looking for I'd be in your debt.

If I could find a rescued corgi puppy that would be great too, but the odds are low I will find what I'm looking for. I've kept an eye on local shelters and rescues for years just to see if I'd get lucky and it's rare that even a senior corgi shows up (good for the corgis, bad for people looking for corgis!). If anyone does know of a corgi rescue group in Ontario though, that would be awesome. I wasn't able to find anything online that's even remotely close to where I live.


Also, I'm not interested in CWCs. I'm throwing that out there because I've had it suggested in the past and I've considered it before. Nothing against them, they're just not quite what I'm looking for this time around. My other half is also set on a PWC and nothing will change his mind.

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Can I try to change your mind? We had a Pem last time around and now we have Bogart, the Cardigan. BEST dog imaginable, and his tail is out of this world!

"I understand that it's a difficult decision for breeders because if I were to back out of getting a puppy they would have a tailed corgi that does not conform to the North American standards. I can't really blame them for being cautious."

I asked my breeder, whom I am VERY, VERY close to and will do basically anything for me or for Waffle, about leaving a tail on my next puppy.  The problems with that go beyond "if you say no, we have a tail!"  It's closer to:  This puppy we left the tail on HATES YOU.  This puppy we docked is PERFECT for you but this isn't your puppy, and you want a tail, so we can't change.  This tailed puppy is the only show-worthy one of the litter, but it has that tail.  Choosing a puppy before the personality develops is problematic for the breeder and the owner, and when you choose not to dock one, you're pulling blindly and the odds for you or the breeder are not very good.

I will message you the name of a breeder I know,. You might also join this facebook group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/473106636084316/

Sidney is a pem with his tail and we love it!

It is difficult to find someone who will leave a tail on for the reasons mentioned by Rachael.   I would also love a tailed Pem. I don't have a moral problem with docking at all, but I do sort of find that it's harder than I thought to read mood changes without the tail.  As a for instance, Maddie and a terrier-mix we know were sniffing and saying hi when I saw the terrier's tail go from waving to perfectly still and straight up over her back.  I made sure we got Maddie away before she had a chance to snap at her.  The tail change was much more obvious than any facial changes, and easier to spot from a distance.   

Maddie is a dog who wags her whole back end.  Jack is not.  So unless Jack is in excited-play-wagging mode and you can see the muscles twitching where his tail base is, you could not necessarily tell if his tail would be wagging.  And I find I just miss seeing a wagging tail.  

So I understand your desire to find a tailed Pem, but it is very hard to do so.  

Al will occasionally snap viciously at another (usually larger) dog.   Perhaps he doesn't know how to say, "Back off!" more tactfully, and I wonder if he'd be able to say that better with a tail.

I've wondered that as well... Chewey seems to have the 2 sec sniff rule before he'll snark at a dog and warn it off - although the time he'll allow another dog to sniff is usually in inverse proportion to the size of the dog ;->  

 

I've often wondered if  a tail would make his back off body language more clear to other dogs. Although in his case it may just be that he wasn't properly socialized (no idea).

I totally understand the desire for a tail, but finding a good breeder that does all the health testing and such, but doesn't dock is pretty much impossible. Maybe if you were open to a mismark a breeder would be more willing to leave the puppy undocked? Mismarks aren't too common in pems either though...

my suggestion is if you have a problem in North America you could always try Australia as the no docking of the tail is law in this country!. Though you pup would have to go thru quarantine!!! good luck. personally I don't like a tail on a pembroke my next pup will have to come from New Zealand!!!.

Good luck in your search!.

Hey, I have a Pem with a tail and she is amazing! So are her parents!  I got her from Jane Christensen (also a member on here) and she is the funniest dog ever!  Plus she just LOVES everybody.  Jane doesn't dock the tails as far as I know.  I haven't seen any that she bred that the docked.  I've met my puppies parents and they are both great dogs!  I and my family agree that her tail gives her so much personality and serves to entertain her when she gets a little bored haha. 

Don't get me wrong, I do love to see the docked corgis try to wag their tails and wag their whole butts instead! But you could talk to Jane.

Have you thought about importing a Pem from the UK or EU? Docking is banned here and honestly, I prefer it that way. Tails are *so* important in reading dog body language. There were some Pem breeders out here who were against this ban on docking, as apparently some Pems can have what's called a "teapot" tail, very spitzy and curled up and over the back. It's not quite as "aesthetically pleasing" as a Cardigan's lush fox brush tail, no, but it's still very cute.

There are tons of breeders out here who are religious in doing health checks and great, well-rounded litters. The Kennel Club in the UK has an Assured Breeder scheme that could help point you in the direction of a breeder who will be of service to you. Best of luck!!

Thanks for the tips and thoughts. :)

I'll get my other half to check out the Facebook group when he gets home, as I don't use Facebook at all. I will also check out the breeder that was in the message.

The first thing I did on this site was join the Undocked Pems group, but it doesn't seem to be very active (last post was in Feb).

I've met both pems and cardis and I've always had a strong preference for the pems. The personality and physical build of the pems is more appealing to me.

Since I'm not interested in breeding, I might be open to a mismark or DQing cosmetic faults like fluffies, blue eyes, etc. Whether it was a fluffy or not wouldn't matter too much to me. They're very pretty, but I'd probably prefer the regular coat for practical reasons. Some mismarks look really neat, too, like the cardi in this pic. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luqral4Zxe1qbjmw6o1_1280.jpg I really like a nice thick blaze and white collar on corgis, though.

It depends on multiple factors, I guess. First and foremost I'd have to find a breeder that health tests, then I'd have to wait for a puppy with the right temperament that "clicks" with me. Looking for a puppy feels like waiting for the stars to align. I'll look at importing if it's too difficult to find one in North America. If I want a tailed pem it makes sense to go where tails are not going to mess up a breeder's plans.

Btw, I love the name Waffle. :) I had a guinea pig named Waffle when I was growing up.

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