Co-ownership
I've started looking for my future corgi, and while looking for available puppies and upcoming litters, a couple of breeders have brought up co-ownership of a pup (or even an older dog). I was wondering if any of you are experienced with that?
What are the advantages and disadvantages to the breeder and to the co-owner of such a contract? How much control (and over what) would the breeder have? What things should I watch out for to make sure that the breeder can't just decide to take the dog back? If a female is co-owned, I understand it usually involves a breeding, how would that work for everyone involved?
I'd love to hear about your experience in co-ownership, good or bad!
What are the advantages and disadvantages to the breeder and to the co-owner of such a contract? How much control (and over what) would the breeder have? What things should I watch out for to make sure that the breeder can't just decide to take the dog back? If a female is co-owned, I understand it usually involves a breeding, how would that work for everyone involved?
I'd love to hear about your experience in co-ownership, good or bad!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Sam Tsang on
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There are several types of co-ownership arrangements:
Co-ownerships between breeders and peers are quite common and serve as a tool to expand a breeder's gene pool while limiting the dogs in residence. Co-ownerships between breeders and fanciers can also be maintained as a method of splitting costs associated with showing and breeding but should never be used as a tool by the breeder to force the new owner to give up ownership of future litters.
Some breeders will sell show puppies on co-ownerships and will not sign the puppy over to sole ownership by the purchaser until such age where the dog has obtained the necessary health clearances to be used for breeding. This arrangement serves to avoid the dog being bred before the appropriate age or before obtaining appropriate health clearances.
For new owners who are not interested in showing or breeding their dogs, co-ownerships may not be the best option. If a breeder requires a co-ownership so as to maintain "breeding rights" on your dog, you may want to think twice. For the most part, co-ownerships of this type benefit the person who is NOT the primary caretaker of the dog (i.e.: breeder) . Be cautious of contracts that sell a puppy for the full purchase price and "require" that the dog be bred and that the breeder get puppies back. This is a very significant hidden cost to the new owner. Some unscrupulous breeders set up "puppy pyramid schemes" with new owners with a profit motive in mind. You should NOT BE REQUIRED to breed your dog!!! Breeding a litter of puppies should be a carefully planned event. It requires an enormous commitment of energy and time, not to mention the responsibility of finding suitable homes for the puppies. The most unfortunate consequence of these types of co-ownerships is the focus on breeding rather than the many other aspects of dog ownership. Think long and hard and consider all consequences of getting involved in a co-ownership of this type.
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Permalink Reply by CorgiLove on
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Wow, that sounds even more complicated that I expected, thanks for all that info.
I guess I'll narrow it down to my particular situation a bit. I'm looking for a pet Corgi - I'm not interested in (or have time for) showing or breeding. I'm open to get a puppy or a young adult. Here are a couple of scenarios I have ran into:
Scenario 1 - Breeder has a year-old female (returned by previous buyer) and wants to breed her once she passes her genetic exams. I would have the dog, but the breeder has the right to one breeding. I have a choice to either pay for the dog and get a free pup from the breeding, or get the dog for free and sign all the pups over to the breeder.
Scenario 2 - Breeder has a litter of pups, but wants to co-own until spay/neuter (will sign full ownership over upon spay/neuter). My understanding is that it's to ensure that the pups are fixed, otherwise all breedings have to be approved by the breeder as co-owner.
Scenario 3 - Breeder has a litter of pups and might want to co-own for breeding rights depending on the pup chosen. Breeding rights would be one-time for a female (like Scenario 1), and I'm not 100% positive about male.
These are 3 different co-ownership offers I have run into so far, do you have any specific input on them? Thanks again!
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hmm.... it really depends on where you are in life, how busy you are...etc. Because your first 9 months of puppy time involves a lot of training, vet appointments, clean up, repair things that get chewed up...etc. So if you're not prepared for that kind of commitment, then adopting a rescue is your best bet, they are calmer, usually already house broken, time spent in training is shorter and you give the dog a second chance in life. Rescue dogs can come from ex-show dogs, owners having allergy attack, moving away...etc.
I personally would not pick any of the options that you mentioned, unless it is a show dog, i don't see co-ownership as a way in advancing the breed. Since you mentioned your preference in pet quality dogs only, I think there are many better choices out there, cost is a factor, but i don't it should be the determining factor.
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Permalink Reply by Melissa on
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Like Sam said, you need to consider your lifestyle. I've got pretty long workdays, so I knew a puppy was out of the question for me. I did a bit of internet research and applied at various rescues in my state and neighboring ones. I ended up adopting Skittles from a breeder/shower. The breeder had a good reputation, and she called me for an interview, during which she recommended Skittles (then Stella) for me. I picked up the dog during my summer break and have been very happy!
If you're at all open to adoption, I highly recommend it. Not only is it cheaper than buying a registered pup, you get that warm fuzzy feeling of giving a home to an unsheltered dog! Breeders and rescues tend to have older dogs, which means they are usually housetrained and relatively well-behaved. Rescues sometimes have puppies, too, so if you'd like a younger dog, check your local corgi rescues for any recent or impending births.
Your biggest concerns when getting a dog, though, should be your compatability with the dog AND the breeder/rescue. Do your research on both. (How does the dog act arround you? Other people? What are the dog's parents like? What do other breeders and rescues say about your breeder/rescue? What do the facilities look like? How does the owner treat the animals? etc.) Because, unfortunately, some breeders aren't good people, and some rescues are little more than puppy mills. We just wanna support the good ones!
I hope you find what you're looking for!
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Permalink Reply by Sam on
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Best to look at your personal goals. If you have no interest in showing or breeding I think I would most look at the breeder that wishes to co-own until the dog is spayed/neutered. Here your only obligation is to follow through with the surgery. You are then free to enjoy your pet with no further obligation. Do know that spayed/neutered dogs are elibible to compete in any other AKC activity other then the breed ring. You may find down the road that you would enjoy obedience, agility or herding. Co-ownerships can be a great way to enter the show/breeding world. If this is not your interest then there is really very little reason to persue it.
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Permalink Reply by James on
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Wow, that all sounds new to me. Scenario 2 seems reasonable, but tossing in the word "co-owner" just makes it all seem a little out of the norm. But it could be normal practice, who knows. I am in a similar contract, however there is no co-ownership. I just signed a waiver to waive my right to breed the pup, or a "spay/neuter agreement". If I were to refuse to spay/neuter (and the breeder expects an invoice from the vet) then I suppose she could take me to small claims court. That seems to be the common practice from the research I did. (not just with Corgi's). I know that if I had a female pup I would not want her breeding if I did not intend on handing the puppies myself or getting into show/breeding ect. In cases such as those involving co-ownership, who finances the medical bills involved in pregnancy? I know from personal experience that DVM's make good money, and services out of the norm (like vax/fix/flea/tick) are quite costly. Do you just turn the dog over to the breeder when she is expecting? I dont think I would ever want to do that with any pet. It's almost like your sending her back to the puppy mill.
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Permalink Reply by Charlie on
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Since you are not interested in showing/breeding, I would avoid co-ownership which requires you to breed the dog for one (or more) litter(s). Too many health risks involved with whelping. Plus lots of time required on your part.
Co-ownership until you show proof of spay/neuter sounds reasonable. The breeder would be selling you a pet-quality dog which has some conformation flaws (purely cosmetic) and should not be bred. She is just ensuring the quality in her dogs, and "forcing" her puppy buyers to be responsible. That's not terribly uncommon with some of the best breeders.
Rescue is a great option to check if you are considering an older dog.
Good luck!
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Thanks everyone, it's great to hear some other opinions, since I also haven't heard much about all this before, but I have contacted so many breeders that I guess I was bound to run into various strange offers :)
I agree that co-owning until spay/neuter sounds alright, not that I would ever plan not to go through with the procedure, and I guess it just gives a little extra security to the breeder to ensure no outside breeding. I wasn't too concerned about that one.
I'm also not completely clear on the female breeding James. What I understood is that the breeder would take her in for some period of time when it was time to deliver and raise the puppies, and all costs and everything would be covered by the breeder as well. I don't know if I would want to give my baby up for a month or two to someone else though, so I thought it was a bit strange. Though on the other hand if I myself was a shower/breeder, maybe that would make sense and be a good way to expand lines?
Thanks again for the replies, I think I'll try and steer away from any of these co-ownership offers (except maybe the spay/neuter one). And of course a rescue is always an option, I'm looking at those as well, but I'm keeping all doors open at the time :)
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