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Comment by Corgi Bear and Handsome George on February 2, 2008 at 2:54pm

This is Jim, Traceys Husband.
Just letteinmg everyone know that the 2 corgi are in love and play like crazy. It all turned out awesome.

Comment by Sylvia & Timmy on January 18, 2008 at 12:36pm

Tracey,
You're getting a lot of information from lots of folks. Consider paying special attention to those working with the breed and involved in training the breed. Each dog is different and should be approached as such. that's where the behaviorist comes in. They observe the behavior and make recommendations, giving you options and alternatives. (if they don't get another behaviorist) Also, Check with and talk to your breeder. They are an invaluable resource. (good ones will stay in touch for the life of your pup)

I agree with everyone that there is definitely an issue and NILIF is the way to go!! I use it all day, everyday. Avoids problems from ever coming up.

Annet, just google NILIF and you'll find out more than you ever wanted to know. BOL

Comment by Charlie on January 18, 2008 at 12:31pm

NILIF, very simply, is taking the leadership position. You go through the door first, eat first, get in bed first (or have the dog sleep on the floor). The other part is making the dog work (Sit/Down) for everything it wants. Hungry dog? Sit, then it gets food. Wants to be petted? Lie down, then it gets pats. The dog essentially does not get rewards until it has expressed obedience first.

Comment by Annet Schultze on January 18, 2008 at 12:18pm

Well Charlie`s totally right on that part, but i dont force myself to be dominant in that way. If he listens to me we have a lot of fun, we play fetch and play around.

Ofcourse a alpha role is to be dominant, but also caring, protective and to ensure meals. (thats what i believe) I train like Natural dogmanship: http://www.natural-dogmanship.com/index.php

hope this is not to commercial;-)
Like the way they think about dogs, but what i was thinking about the belly rub was that you ment it to become "packleader".
What i also believe is that as a human you can never really become a packleader, cause you dont have the sences that a dog has. A dog can hear, smell and see far better than us. So it will hear, see and smell things (like visitors) coming before we do. Its hard to explain, you might get a better idea of my ideas about dogtraining, when you see the internetsite. I do agree with Sam and as well you first have to have respect. But i dont think you can do it on your own; still would go for that behaviourist (trainer or however its called)
And can anyone send me a email or something about the NILF program, (havent got a clue what that is, we dont have that here in Holland)

Comment by Sam on January 18, 2008 at 12:08pm

One thing that must be remembered here is that this owner does not have the respect of this dog. Rolling a dog on the back is a very dangerous technique especially for one that is not behavior savvy. This is no way will garner a general respect. I highly suggest that this not be tried.
The NILF program is a good one. This along with restructuring your life with this girl is what will be beneficial. Corgis will often "test the waters' with behaviors unless they are certain of the rules and expectations in the environment. This is established by consitency of the humans in the home. Your energies would be best spent on teaching this girl to be a well behaved and respectful companion.

Comment by Charlie on January 18, 2008 at 11:25am

Forcing a snarling, growling dog on its back to assert dominance, and rolling your happy submissive dog over for a belly rub are separate issues. The first is exerting your dominance over a dominant or fear aggressive dog by use of force and fear; the second is building on the trust your subordinate dog has for you and he gets rewarded (belly rub) for that trust.

The alpha roll was popularized in the 1970's by The Monks of New Skete who are highly respected for their dog training methods. They later expressed regret and apologized for publishing the technique. A forced alpha roll should only be used in the most severe dominance cases and only used in combination with positive techniques. General use of the forced alpha roll is now considered outdated and obsolete in all but the most extreme cases.

I believe Tracey, that your dog is showing some dominance testing issues but not extreme at this point, and you can regain control with the No Free Lunch or NILIF techniques.

Comment by Annet Schultze on January 18, 2008 at 10:13am

Hej everybody,
I believe this is a problem of socialisation, and leadership! If she doesnt know how to act around dogs, that might be a problem, and you have to socialise her with other (gentle) dogs. But my corgi doesnt really like other dogs either. Hes very dominant, and doesnt like to be sniffed and mostly egnors other dogs.
But I do believe you have to be able to put your dog on his back! this is a dominant thing you do, but every packleader dhould be able to do this! If you dont dare to do this on your own, get a behaviourist to help you. And putting a dog on his back and giving him belly rubs, to let him get used to laying on his back is not usefull, then the dog learns we are quite stupid cause we approach this "very serious act of dominants" like a game.
Phelan tried to bite me several times when i put him on his back, and he can get really ugly, but you cant back down at that moment, cause then youll lose! Phelan knows Im the packleader now, and doesnt rowl anymore when i put him on his back, he accepted me. You have to win that fight and not be scared of her, and it sounds to me that shes allready winning, cause your getting scared of her growling.
I would recomend a behaviourist and before you get you packleadership back with her, dont get a puppy.

Good luck! hope it will work out

Comment by Charlie on January 17, 2008 at 4:58pm

I would keep up the belly scratches when she's happy and you're not forcing her on her back!

You've got me stumped on why she would have a drastic behavioral change (lasting more than a day) just from a visit to the breeder. That's curious. Puppies are always stressed when we forever home owners take them away from their littermates. They don't know where we are taking them; it's all strange and new. Maybe the smell of the breeder's house triggered an associated "stress" memory. I still wouldn't think that would last longer than you getting her back home where she now feels secure.

Comment by Corgi Bear and Handsome George on January 17, 2008 at 4:40pm

Gotta say that I do give her belly scratches and she willingly rolls on her back. So we have these moments where she is submissive to me, but this morning just made me think. When I come home, she does lower her head and ears, and will sometimes roll onto her back for a belly scratch. And she does not every moment snarl at me, sometimes less often than not. Her behavior did drastically change when we came home from the breeder and just makes me think.

Comment by Charlie on January 17, 2008 at 4:37pm

I do gently roll Charlie over for belly rubs or hold him in my arms like a baby (belly up) when he is relaxed and happy. He loves his daily belly rubs. The "belly-up" position is a very submissive position for a dog, and if your dog is used to it, it does help reinforce your leadership position.

Sorry if I snapped! I just had a mental image of CorgiBear not having the right balance to let Tracey try this without really lashing out at her. Your other ideas about being on the bed, furniture, etc are right on target.

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