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Permalink Reply by Charlie on February 11, 2008 at 2:44pm

I don't see any difference between European and American dog psychology ways,as you say. There are "old school" training methods (fear and punishment based) from 20 years ago and the newer "positive training" methods (respect and reward based). We Americans are not all as backwards as you might think. LOL

Cesar's basic concepts of Excercise, Discipline and Affection are generally very good. I think he has helped a lot of people more than hurt. I do however have a huge problem with his use of the alpha roll, and have seen him get bitten more than once on his show while demostrating it. It is certainly not a technique that the average dog owner should ever try at home. The Monks of New Skeet developed the alpha roll concept in the 1970's, and later publicly apologized for it. Lots of ordinary dog owners used it, misused it, abused it, got hurt and damaged the relationship with their dog.

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Permalink Reply by Anita Bjerring on February 12, 2008 at 10:53am

well I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one. I admit I don´t know enough about the man to judge him on all his methods, I just go by what I have seen and did not like one bit, and what they tell me at the Danish kennel club and the animal protection society. I have faith in that they protest his methods fore a good reason. I wouldn't trust him whit my dog, that´s all i´m saying.

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Permalink Reply by Little Bear on February 12, 2008 at 9:28pm

The thing I've been doing with Little Bear has been working great. We have a retractable leash because the only way to make him walk behind me is to make the least about 3 inches short, haha!

I love the retractable leash because it allows him to run around and really stretch his legs instead of going on some kind of 30 minute death march where he just has to watch the world pass him by. Instinctively, my Little Bear is a pack leader. And it started to piss me off when he would just be as rowdy as he possibly could be and go off every which way, so we started a system of rewards and punishment. He is only allowed to smell if he has to pee (I know what he likes to pee on so only a few things are allowed), but if he starts smelling anything else, like the ground, sticks, ANYTHING, I immediately pull him in (I call it Corgi fishing) and he has to walk behind me until he be a good boy. It's like his time out. I also do this if he "clotheslines" me which is runs so far away, he tugs at the leash and starts to pull me.

And it's been like a 180. He knows exactly when to stop so he won't clothesline me, but he does still smell a lot. Not as much as he used to thank God, but still. Our problem with smelling is his Corgi appetite. He eats everything he smells!

So we jsut do a simple time out for misbehaving (all kinds, not just those listed) and we both really enjoy our walks because of it. Nothing against Cesar Milan (genius man) but I prefer our retractable leash so he can really just be a little boy!!!

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Permalink Reply by Bonny on February 14, 2008 at 10:27am

A bit late in coming, but I'd like to share the method I learned in my obedience class. I had used Cesar's method of giving a correction to the side when Junebug would pull ahead, which worked OK, but required constant reinforcement.

In my class, we started with a choke collar and 6' lead, the end of the leash (with loop) in your right hand with thumb through the loop, and the left hand forming a loose grip around the lead closer to the dog. Do not close the left hand or pull with it in any way. Dog is on the left side. Walk forward. When the dog steps ahead of you do a quick about-face and walk the other way (with arms DOWN). Basically, the dog corrects itself when it hits the end of the slack, and will turn and follow you. When you've taken 6 steps or so in the other direction, you about-face again to continue your walk. This method can be done in a backyard, as well. Basically, the frequent changes in direction cause your dog to start watching and following you. The loose grip on the left hand is only used to keep the dog from walking directly behind you. If the dog is being pokey, you give 1-3 shorts tugs with your right hand, saying "Let's go, Fido!".

It's important to give regular, simple, formulaic commands in the form of "Name, Command" ("Junebug, let's go!"), and repeat it often while walking (this is not true with other excercises). I use an upbeat voice, which causes Junebug to be very confident and willing while we work. Also, I treat the walk as her work, so no dilly-dallying. We are peeing or walking. On walks, this is what I do unless I stop to let her go to the bathroom, or shorten her leash to more of a heel in situations when I need her to close to me.

Using this method, the first week or so of walks involved lots of about-faces, and they were sometimes nearly twice as long! But soon she was following consistently at my left side, and now corrections are few. I haven't about-faced in months!

I like that this method is simple and keeps you moving (no "bad dog!" or stopping and waiting). I acutally used a similar method with my horses. You go and stop when you want to, and the lead is neutral tool that the animal has to learn to avoid correction from. When I separate myself from the correction, I don't get angry or overbearing. I just have clearly guide and have patience in practicing and giving the animal the best chance to learn the excercise. That's why I love working with animals :)

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Permalink Reply by Charlie on February 14, 2008 at 11:07am

That's a very good method. We tried it for a little over a week, and it wasn't working for us, so I made a small modification and we had our breakthrough. When Charlie starts walking about a foot ahead but before the leash gets tight, I say in a normal tone "penalty yards" (could be any phrase) and take a few steps backwards. Charlie has to do the about face, but then is looking directly at me as he comes forward and I move backward. In about 3 to 10 steps backwards, Charlie is coming to me faster than I'm walking backward and he's making eye contact. "Good job! C'mon!' as I start forward again, he ends up next to my left leg. The only real difference in methods is that I'm not doing the about face, and walking backwards reestablishes the eye contact and focus.

And you are absolutely correct: patience, patience, and more patience. : - ) Charlie has never heard the phrase "bad dog" in his life (and he never will)! I can kick myself in private all I want (problems are always the trainer's fault, not the dog's). When we're working it has to be all fun and positive.

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