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Permalink Reply by Avyon on October 8, 2007 at 11:31pm

Im actually having the same issue with my brother's husky. I'm living with him for a while away from my little family and I could tell the first day she was very aggressive and not well mannered at all. Most of all very violent for a pup and already very food aggressive (already this morning she almost bit me while I was playing with her kong with her)

While different breeds I'm sure the way of teaching is similar, I'll copy and paste some of the tip a forum I was asking help from sent me to give to my brother.
I'll put what I think is more relevant to you first, I also cut out some of the issues that doesn't relate to your puppy hehe.
I know its allot but I hope it helps you.

"Biting/mouthing is a pretty natural behavior for puppies. It's how the explore and become familiar with the world (a lot like human babies who try to put everything in their mouths). Believe it or not, the period from 9-11 mos (give or take a little) is the worst period for teething, which means pups are prone to get in a lot of trouble with their mouths. When they're are young (under 4mos) it is much easier to teach them what's called "bite inhibition" - controlling how much pressure they use to bite down on things. Unfortunately, as they get older, their mouth response becomes more ingrained and it's much more difficult to teach them to be gentle with their mouths.

However, you can still communicate to them that it's not appropriate to put their mouths on some things (like people). The first way I try to do this is when the pup bites/mouths I yelp loudly or say "OWWW!" in a high pitched voice, and turn away like they really hurt me. Many times, this is a more effective way of communicating with dogs since it's how their litter mates would respond if they got too rough. With some dogs though, yelping excites them more. In those cases, I've had luck with hamming it up and acting really sad, depressed, pouty/wimpy (a quiet "owwww" and *sniffle, whimper*) and withdrawing attention by walking away and not interacting.


I would also work on teaching the puppy a command that means "don't put your mouth on that object". I call this "leave it". To start teaching it, get some treats (not too good, because if they're really yummy the pup has trouble thinking about what you're doing because they're excited about the food). Dry cat food or other doggie treats can work well. Get a bowl of treats and sit with the pup. Take a treat in your hand, holding it so that they can sniff/lick at it, but can't actually get the treat. Show it to them and say "leave it" (only say it once) and then wait for them to move their mouth away from your hand for even just a split second. It may take them a little while, but be patient. Don't pull your hand away - make them move their nose away. As soon as they withdraw their mouth, praise and give them the treat.

Repeat this process a few times, then start requiring them to move their mouth away for longer and longer before they get the treat. Once they're starting to get it, I would stop giving them the treat in your hand and start giving them a treat from your bowl. This is because "leave it" is a cue that may be used when its dangerous for the dog to put something in their mouth. In those cases, the dog wouldn't get to eventually eat the item, so you want them to not get in the habit of thinking they always get the treat in your hand as long as they pull their nose away briefly.

Once they are good enough that you would be willing to bet me $50 that the dog will leave the food in your hand alone when you ask, then you move to the next step, which is having the food on your open palm (so you can close your hand if they decide to try to steal it). Use the same process to slowly extend the time they leave the item, and feed them from the treat bowl. The next step would be to put a treat on the floor (where you can cover it up) and repeat the process. Over time, you can work up to some pretty impressive results.

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Permalink Reply by Avyon on October 8, 2007 at 11:40pm

Cut it off without any warning.. lovely.

Mouthing can sometimes be used to indicate that the dog doesn't like whatever was being done to them, and it certainly doesn't indicate abuse of any kind. Does she do the same thing when you scratch/pet her chest as if you reach over the top of her head or back? My own girl doesn't like it when people put their arms over top of her back. It can make her very uncomfortable.

I would try tethering your girl to a sturdy object and if she jumps up or bites in play, stand up and walk away from her so that she can't follow you. This way she can't force herself on you or continue to interact inappropriately. Be sure to come back to her within 30 seconds to a minute. She will probably try the inappropriate behavior again. When she does, leave her again.

By keeping the duration of your absence short, and allowing her to repeat the process multiple times, she should be able to figure out the causality between biting/jumping and you leaving. This is where people can slip up sometimes. They leave the dog for so long that by the time the person returns to the dog, it's forgotten what was happening when the person left, so they don't figure out that it's their behavior that causes the person to leave.

This is a form of operant conditioning (where the dog is operating/acting on their environment), and when used as described, is a combination of "negative punishment" (withdrawing attention to decrease the inappropriate behavior) and positive reinforcement (giving the dog attention to reinforce calm behavior).

It sounds like you're down in the floor playing with her, and that she steps on you/in your lap? Many times, being on the pup's level in the floor with them can encourage them to treat you more like a sibling/playmate than the "leader" of the pack. In those cases, I recommend that people not sit in the floor so much, and not allow the dog to step on them or lean against them.

Also, rather than just ignoring the puppy, actually get up and walk away from them, refusing to interact in any way. If you do this every single time, they learn that their overly excited play causes you to go away. Typically they'll pick up on this fast because all they really want is to play with you, and you'll notice they tone down their behavior.

One thing to realize about jumping (and sometimes biting/mouthing) is that many times people respond to it by trying to push the dog off of them and getting agitated/yelling/griping (which just adds energy to the situation). This is an opportunity for miscommunication because in canine body language, the only time dogs put their feet on one another or swat at each other is when they're trying to elicit play. So, be very cognizant of your body movements when the pup tries to do these things.

Once she's good with leave it, you can use this cue to tell her not to put her mouth on all manner of things, including people. You will want to practice this particular exercise every day to get it really solid. I consider this to be one of the life saving behaviors I want my dogs to know really well. You never know when they might encounter something dangerous (like antifreeze) or gross (like the dead oppossum my girl wanted to bring in the house one night).

It's also important to interrupt play with the pup frequently. As dogs get more excited, they tend to bite harder and lose control of their mouths. With pups, I recommend interrupting their play as often as every 30 seconds to a minute to keep the adrenaline levels from getting too high. Also, try not to let people do things like playing rough with her or wrestling, at least until you've got her other behavior issues under control.

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Permalink Reply by Avyon on October 8, 2007 at 11:41pm

I would dissuade you from trying to show the pup that you're dominant by using forceful/coercive methods with her. The dominance theory that was popular for so long (involving alpha rolls and dominant dogs using force on submissive dogs) has fallen out of favor as it's become evident that it was based on faulty observations of wolf pack dynamics in the '40s.

Current research is starting to indicate that wolf pack hierarchy is more fluid than previously thought, and that the higher ranking dogs don't typically use force in most situations. They "rule" through confidence and by controlling access to desirable resources. Typically, its actually the less confident "beta" dogs who are prone to bickering, trying to use force to prove their position. The analogy I use in my classes is to consider a Fortune 500 company. The president of the company is the "alpha". He is confident and doesn't have to get forceful or feel the need to micromanage his employees. They respond out of respect for him and his position. The "beta" would be middle-management, which is where you see much more of the office politics, in-fighting, micro-management, etc. By trying to physically dominate the dog, you might actually be undermining your position within the pack and accidentally telling her that you're not confident enough to use other methods.

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Permalink Reply by Sam Tsang on October 9, 2007 at 9:23am

I agree with what Avyon has posted, we went through similar training at petsmart classes. we actually did every class all the way to Canine Good Citizen. I highly recommend it, it is a good place to socialise your pup. The Alpha dog is chill, they don't need to bark and scream, just a simple look and the beta would know to back off :) Bring you pups to petsmart and observe one of their classes.

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Permalink Reply by Cindi on October 10, 2007 at 1:18am

Hope you don't mind if I chime in. I'm a PetSmart trainer and we do employ this type of positive training. Forceful methods will often backfire on an aggressive or dominant dog. One must follow dog thinking and not people thinking (lol). Believe me, I trained for quite some time and learned different schools of thought and practice. However, positive reward-based training is definitely the way to go.

Sam's suggestion for dropping by your PetSmart and watching a class or two is a good one, especially if the store has more than one trainer. We all may teach the same basic curriculum, but everyone's style is different. Talk to the trainer(s) and find out their background, what dogs they have, how were they trained, how many dogs are in the class and how does the trainer deal with conflicts in the training class. All of these are important when choosing what class would be appropriate for your dog.

If you have questions about the program, I'll be happy to answer them. But putting my oldest corgi in PetSmart training was the best thing I did. Not only did Tank pass his AKC CGC but Delta therapy certification, as well. And ultimately, it lead to a great career for me!

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Permalink Reply by Candy on October 10, 2007 at 1:26am

Do the classes train the dog, or does it train you to train the dog??
I tried positive reinforcement all day today, and it worked!! She actually responds. Instead of telling her "No, no, no" all the time. But an hour or two later, she forgets and goes back to destroying whatever it is.
But I definitely will check out the training classes.
Thanks.

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Permalink Reply by Cindi on October 10, 2007 at 2:18am

We give you the tools to work with your dog. That's truly important. I did private training where you drop your dog off and someone else trains it. I found that the dogs had no problem listening to me (the trainer) but weren't too keen on listening to their owners! So, I like having the owners in class, participating with their animals, and learning how to have fun with their dogs! Think of positive training like this: if I want you to do something and all I get is frustrated, yell, and scold, would you want to learn? Nope. But if I praise you, respect you, and offer you alternatives, do you want to learn? Absolutely! Just remember, they're not people! Yes, you can teach them something, but it takes time and repetition. They will go back to their old habits. You just have to be patient with them and consistent in training.

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Permalink Reply by Silvia Li on October 11, 2007 at 11:25am

I agree with all the posts above. I also recommend you to watch Cesar Millan's videos. It teaches you how to be the pack leader. It helps me to understand dog's behavior and hierarchy much better.

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Permalink Reply by Cindi on October 11, 2007 at 1:04pm

Cesar's info on pack leadership is excellent. However, I caution any owner who tries to employ his other methods. Unless you are a trainer, you might want to stay away from the more aggressive methods he uses. If you don't know what you're doing, they can backfire on you quickly.

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Permalink Reply by Maggie and Me on October 11, 2007 at 1:56pm

In my experience...Using Cesar Milan's techniques worked for me. I agree that you do have to be strong, assertive and consistent to use them. I did use the grabbing of the neck and lying her down method quite a bit. I did not do it in an aggressive way but just enough to show her I was in control. When she first came to me she had food gobbling issues..learned from being in a hungry litter I'm sure. At meal time I would put a few pieces of food in her bowl and make her sit and stay until I said she could have it. Make her go back to sit...put a few more pieces in the bowl and give her permission to eat again. I did this for about 2 or 3 weeks...every meal. I think it was key in her understanding me as her leader.
I have used a loud noise commad with her also that is very affective. I say "ANGH" loudly everytime she goes after something bad..and she avoids it every time.
I have also used a finger snap to get her attention. She always stops what she's doing to listen to me when I snap. This is very much like the clicker method which seems to be VERY affective!
Above all...we have to think in terms of dog psychology. We have to do what happens naturally in their world and not what we would do with a human child...but also what works best for you in your situation. Some people take it to the extreme and overtrain..and some let their dogs run their household.
just a few things that have worked for me...in my situation ; )

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Permalink Reply by Cindi on October 12, 2007 at 9:47pm

I'm glad they worked for you. I tend to avoid things like "scruff shakes" and the more aggressive training methods. Just a personal preference. I recognize there are some dogs who are more hard-headed than others. I do stay more to the positive reward-based training. I do use a very assertive "uh uh" with our dogs. They know that when my voice changes from nice to sharp, they need to quite whatever it is they're doing! Finger snaps do work well. All of my corgis have responded well to that. The purpose of the clicker is to identify that a treat is coming. It's simply a marker, not an attention getter. At least that's the purpose, even though most don't use it that way.

And, yes, folks do tend to anthropomorphize their dogs. They're not little people. They are dogs and they think like dogs and act like dogs. One must relate to them as dogs. It is the only real way that they understand their place in the pack. As much as I wish my corgis related on a human level, they don't and I have to train them as such.

Glad Cesar's way worked for you.

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Permalink Reply by Candy on October 12, 2007 at 8:41pm

Thanks for all the advice!
I'm going to try them! I remember, when Bonni was a puppy... she was quite a booger. But she doesnt like it when you're mad at her so... training Bonni was not much of a problem, because she is so eager to please. Faye on the other hand, doesn't care to listen. She resists both Bonni and me!! That's why I am so concerned.
But I'll try these methods! I hope I can train Faye without a trainer (kinda low on budget). Thanks everyone!

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