Westminster choice
I'm not prejudiced about a Corgi not winning the Westminster dog show, but why do these judges consistantly favor Peke's and Poodles? As for the Best In Show group, I favored the Setter or Doberman. They looked good, performed well, and had the proper stance when idle. With the Peke, you can't tell if he is standing, sitting, or peeing on the floor. I know I do not know all the qualities the judges are looking for, but I was disappointed in their choice for best in show and feel cheated after spending two nights watching the results.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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What disappoints me is that judges regularly seem to put up dogs in group that have serious, serious issues as a breed. I honestly can't watch it any more. The Peke can't move out of a slow shuffle. The GSD's all look like they'd fall down in a stiff breeze, because of their ridiculous back ends.
The labs are obese and gigantic. What happened to Rotties? They are getting flatter and flatter faces as the years go by, and where did that huge domed forehead come from?
The Border Collies look like no BC I've ever seen and most of them look like they wouldn't know a sheep from a sofa.The judge commented that Welsh Springer Spaniels and English Springer Spaniels used to be similar except for coat color, then paused and gave some lame reason about Welshies getting shorter. Not true! Show line ESS's look NOTHING like the hunting spaniels of yore. Too tall, too square, too much coat. They've changed, the Welshman has stayed true to type.
*sigh* When I can see major changes for the worst in breeds in the short 10 years or so since I've watched dog shows, it makes me despair for the future of purebred dogs.
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Permalink Reply by Melissa and Franklin! on
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I totally agree Beth. I don't even watch it anymore because the dogs on there make me cringe. And yes, while the corgis were quite cute, seems like they just keep getting longer and longer and longer. Even 4 years ago when I started looking closely at corgis, they were a much more compact dog (yes they had a long back for their height, but not dachshund looking!). I don't know if any of you noticed but as the handler was trying to stack the winning corgi its back legs were trembling so much it couldn't stand and kept stepping forward. Why not just let a dog stand in a natural square position instead of stretching them out to look even LONGER? And I truly don't understand the point in continuing to breed dogs that can no longer even perform the job they were originally bred for. GSD have been disgustingly bred for years and it just keeps getting worse and worse. There is a breeder near me that breeds true GERMAN GSD and they are beautiful, straight backed, large HERDING and protection dogs. Her dogs would never even place in a show, but I'd \pay every penny of the $1600 she charges for them because at least I know I am getting a dog that is not grossly deformed and going to suffer hip dysplasia in a few years. Rotties, bulldogs, pugs, pekes etc have all become so deformed they can't even breath, let alone serve a purpose beyond being a lump on the ground, and the labs probably couldn't even last one duck hunting trip. None of my friends hunting labs look even remotely like show labs, they are starting to get blockier and blockier and pretty soon we are going to see in their head/face what has happened to the rottie.
"rant over" lol.
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Permalink Reply by Chelsea and Wyatt on
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That is true about the Corgis getting longer and longer. I suspect that that factor contributes to such genetic diseases such DM and hip displasia. There's no need to exaggerate certain qualities of a purebred dog. By doing so, it diminishes other important qualities.
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The standard gives a very specific ratio between height and length for Pembrokes; the length from withers to point of tail should be 40% longer than from ground to withers.
My dogs are both from show breeders and pretty much match that. If indeed longer dogs are winning, then the other breeders should file a complaint.
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Permalink Reply by Joanna, Rainy and Calvin on
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We used to watch it every year. Now, I only watch it for the 20 minutes or so for the herding group. People can say what they like...it is all personal choice. When it gets down to the brass tacks, and all dogs are the best of their standard, it comes to personal choice. And judges seem to like the yippy dogs. :(
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Permalink Reply by John Wolff on
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Corgis have to step back and give the others a chance.
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Permalink Reply by Kevan hudson on
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Who designates what a certain breed should walk ,look etc.my auntie looked after ,raised GSD,s none of them looked or walked like what I saw at this years show,way to go A.K.C. stay away from my corgis.!!!
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Permalink Reply by Zigward & Kimberly on
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Eww:( I've never watched a dog show, it's just not something I've been particularly interested in, and after reading these comments I am happy I haven't. Stuff like that makes me SO angry and SO sad.
I don't understand why it would be this way-wouldn't you want to breed for how the dog is SUPPOSED to look? Not otherwise? UGH.
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Permalink Reply by Megan C on
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They are judged by how close they fit the standard set forth by the parent club. I think the Peke's win because there is less to judge them on other than their face, gait, and coat as you cannot find the rest of the body parts. I dislike watching the german shepherds go round as they look horribly crippled, but that is what their breed standard calls for unfortunately. This is not AKC but the fault of the parent club.
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I do blame AKC and here's why: They are the ones who license judges.
On one of the big national shows, I saw a video clip of a best-in-show winning German Shepherd from the late 1970's, and it cut immediately to the current Group winner (this was a couple of years ago). The difference was striking, and sad, and when I felt like crying I turned it off.
These dogs don't crop up overnight. It's not like one day every show GSD litter was born with the extreme angulation behind. The FIRST one that showed up in the ring should have been tossed out on his tail for bringing an unsound dog into the ring. Instead, it seems they won. And won. And won some more. Not only do they win breed, they win Group a lot too.Instead of dismissing clearly unsound dogs, they pin them. So what are the competitive breeders to do? Yes the club writes the standard, but the standard on the backend of GSD's is open to interpretation. And it's the judges' interpretation that pushes dogs in one direction over another.
I never saw a Rottweiler with such a short muzzle until very recently, and now the short muzzle dogs apparently are winning Breed. So guess where that will go?
AKC needs to change how they evaluate and educate judges. Breeds should not be rewarded for showing up with extreme dogs that can't function as dogs.
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By the way, they breed the GSD that way to get the great flying trot. But the poor dogs look like frogs and can't even stand steady without wobbling. And the judge picks the GSD as the best in the whole group? Crazy.
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The standard was last re-reviewed in 1978. Here is the part that talks about gait and hindquarters: http://www.gsdca.org/Noframes/standard/IllStan3.htm
The parent association needs to change their standard and speak up if it is not being followed. I think the judge at Westminster used to breed GSD's as well. The competitive breeders are the judges. And they often are chairs in the parent club. If the GSD's breeders wanted to fix the extreme angulation they need to propose and change the breed standard. The English Bulldog breeders in the UK are doing just that to try and repair the health of their dogs.
That said, the general public does not seem to care about the health of a breed. They go more for something that looks cool which the funky flying trot does to some people. Breeders I think sometimes breed to the puppy-sale market; which is wrong but makes good business sense. Goldens, King Charles Cavaliers, English Bulldogs, and Boxers are all breeds with lots of health problems and are all extremely popular.
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