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Comment by Bax & Zigs & Rosie on October 13, 2011 at 8:23am

Nice work!! I was just wondering about your weave pole experiences. I've been doing the weaves with the guides on them. He was doing great when I was just using six, but when we went to the trainer's last week, he did six and then just popped out. I added the next six after that, but we only had one session of it so far. He did great with them, but back at the trainers, he was just not putting it together. So back to the practice weaves!

 

I think Baxter will stay in an ex-pen, but I think he'd still feel the same aka why am I not out where the action is?

Comment by Beth on October 12, 2011 at 6:10pm

I'm so excited!   I just wanted to say that tonight, just 16 days after getting our own set of 2x2 weave poles, Jack weaved 4 straight poles and nailed some awful entries;  he'll run from 15 feet out with the poles on his RIGHT shoulder and go around them to enter with the poles on his left.   

 

AND we've only worked on average about 5 minutes one time a day, skipping some days and maybe doing them twice on a Saturday.  

 

I should say he had done some preliminary work when I got my own and was at the point where he'd take two sets of poles about 10 feet apart, set at 2 and 8, but only from a narrow entry point.

 

I can't say how happy I am with this method.   The amazing thing is the entries you get from the terrible angles.  The dog just "knows" that he has to hit that first set. 

 

He's not perfect yet and sometimes he'll just hit the last set (I didn't do enough reinforcing on the entry when we moved to 2 sets as I didn't have the DVD at that point and was just going by what we went over in class.   And if he's too excited he'll sometimes do some funny moves.  But he's definitely at about 80%.   

Best of all, he loves it so much he asks me to go down the basement and play "the game."   

 

I'll keep him at this point for a few days and try moving the poles outside before adding the 3rd set as an open gate and then adding a jump or something, but it's just amazing.  He DOES bang the bars but he drives through with his head down, looking forward.   He could use a little more speed but I think with the long-backed dogs, it's hard for the footwork to come together and he's getting faster as he gets comfortable.  

 

I did add one step that Susan does not:  I went to a step where set 2 was at 12 and 6, but set 1 was still at 1 and 7, with the two sets touching.  He seemed to need that visual to understand that the four together was the same as the four slightly separated.  

 

LOVE it!  

Comment by Jenny, Tucker, & Zoey on October 6, 2011 at 10:40pm

Tucker and I went to our first class last night. FUN!

Comment by Beth on September 30, 2011 at 10:21am

Thank you, Cheri.  You have made me feel better.  You are right, we all must be advocates for our own dogs, and I feel like I understand Jack better than any dog I've had. 

To Baxter's owner:  will he stay in an ex-pen?  I know Jack relaxes better in the pen than the crate.  I think because he was locked in the pen while awake quite a lot as a pup, but the crate was mostly for sleeping.

Comment by Bax & Zigs & Rosie on September 30, 2011 at 9:14am

I've never heard of this crate game before. One thing I really worry about is Baxter being a crate while at a trial. Baxter was crate trained as a puppy, but eventually he gained more and more freedom and is now trusted to have full reign of the house. When we do agility at the trainers, I put him in one of her crates when I walk the course. He used to be really noisey and bark but he's gotten a lot better.

 

I have heard at agility events, dogs should be kept in crates while you wait for your turn to come up. Baxter is like my little buddy and he's always just sat next to me leashed without any problems. We might need to start working on crate training again.

Comment by Cheri on September 30, 2011 at 7:36am

One of the things I dislike about Susan Garrett training is that it is advocated for all dogs. Dogs are not robots. Similar to people they have unique personalities that come with unique challenges. While I like Susans training for the most part, you have to be an advocate for your dog and do what is right for them. While you have a super high drive dog, I have a soft guy who lacked confidence. We have to find methods that work for their unique training challenges. If you don't think Crate Games will be good for your situation, I say go with your gut. You know your dog best.

Comment by Beth on September 29, 2011 at 10:46pm

I have used the clicker very successfully to mark the start of flying recalls when Jack is in highly distracting situations (roaming in the woods, in a big field with lots of other dogs) and that has sharpened him considerably; I click when he first starts to turn toward me, and again when he reaches me.  But he already had a full-speed recall, taught using the recall game when he was a pup.  This just sharpened him up in the odd situations where he wasn't 100%.   (He will recall directly over the top of an open bait bag filled with treats, so his recall was already outstanding).  

 

However, I can't use it to train new behaviors because of the over-excitement thing I mentioned. 

Comment by Beth on September 29, 2011 at 10:42pm

The funny thing is, Jack actually needs less drive, not more.  For instance, I was trying to teach him how to move his back end around his front using the clicker.  The clicker worked for marking putting his front legs on a big book, but after that it got him too high, offering too many random behaviors and giving frustration whines.  I toned it down by going back to my marker word instead of the clicker and he's still trying a little too hard but it's better.  

 

Sometimes I have to tell him "steady, steady" so he slows down and thinks instead of just blasting around.  

 

I know the crate games is meant to teach them drive AND self-control, but when I watch clips from it I just get a bad feeling.  Not regarding the method, but regarding my own dog.  

 

I have read online about some Border Collies getting crate-obsessed or even crate-aggressive after doing a Crate Games seminar.  Knowing that I can only use the clicker with Jack to counter things that are innately highly rewarding to him (like sniffing), because he's transferred SO MUCH value to the clicker that he can't even think straight when he sees it in normal training circumstances, I'm afraid something similar might happen with his crate.  Since he's currently happy with his crate, I hate to muddle with it.  

 

I think I'll skip it and talk to my trainer about why I feel how I do. 

Comment by Cheri on September 29, 2011 at 8:32pm

I think Crate Games is extremely beneficial. One of the first thing she advises you do is to cover the wire below the door opening with dict tape so the dog can't do what yours did. But basically it's to teach focus, drive, and self control. It sounds like you have that already.

Comment by Beth on September 29, 2011 at 7:51pm

I do like the one of him going over the top of the A-frame.

 

Ok, I have a question.  Crate Games (Susan Garrett).  Anyone done it? How valuable is it?  Here's the thing:  My agility instructor does a crate games workshop every year and thinks that all her students would benefit by it.  

 

However, Jack always blasted into his crate based on how I trained him when he was a puppy.  We've never done crate games. About a year and a half ago or so, he barreled in as always and caught a toe or something on the bottom part of his wire crate.  He screamed and was three-legged lame for a short time.  It was late, and he seemed to put weight on it after awhile, so I played wait-and-see.  For several months after that he was lame in that leg off and on.  Not sure if he just twisted a toe or wrenched his shoulder or what.  After a few months he was fine.  However, he is more methodical going into the crate now and I am very reluctant to go through a class that gets him cranked about charging in and out of the crate again.

 

Is there anything in there that he can't get through another method.  He is already VERY drivey, and has a solid start-line stay (I can get a two or three jump lead-out and he won't break).  The only thing he's not good at is staying quiet in the crate while I personally work another dog (if I try to train with Maddie in the house, he barks and barks whenever I give a command or a praise word, and forget about it if I use the clicker....)

Feedback much appreciated. 

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