Hello! Intro (Kinda) and Vent About San Francisco, Hotels, and my Service Dog
Hello!
Ah, kinda sad that my first blog post is about a touchy issue, but I am just so livid right now, I need a safe place to let out my thoughts.
I should start with basics I guess. I'm 29 years old and my husband and I live in San Jose, California. I'm originally from Puerto Rico, and moved to San Jose for work at 27. My husband is from Indiana. I met my husband at work, and we recently got married. I've had a number of various health issues all my life, and it was recommended to me that I look into getting a dog to help mitigate some of those issues. And so Penny came into our lives. Unfortunately I lost my job (ironically I suppose, after a string of missed work due to health issues, but no way to prove it was related to that), and so the task of training Penny to be my service dog has fallen on my own hands. We were able to save some money and sign her up for a professional obedience class as well, but for the specific tasks that I need her to do in order to help me, we are attempting them on our own. She's currently a service dog in training. Our current goal is to get the basic training out of the obedience class and then try and work her all the way up to Canine Good Citizen, and by then fingers-crossed we'll have a little money saved up to get her tested by an professional service dog trainer that can "certify" that she can indeed do all of the tasks that are required of her, and so forth. If we are ever able to afford professional training instead of just testing and certification then we'll gladly go that route, but for now we're on our own save for the obedience class. I've done a lot of heavy research and reading on the ADA and am aware that she does not need certification or ID or any of that stuff, so long as she can do the tasks that are needed in order to help mitigate my conditions, but we figured that having her at least past the AKA CGC and a specific test issued by a licensed/professional service dog trainer or organization wouldn't hurt.
Penny is currently 4 months old and is doing quite well. She has some issues sometimes but I expect those as she's still a baby. Most importantly, she's doing very well when it comes to the specific tasks I need her to do, so I am feeling confident and reassured that we're going down the right path.
Fast forward to now. My parents are going to be visiting San Francisco around mid November (before Thanksgiving), from Puerto Rico. Originally, my mom wanted my husband and I to stay with them in the city, so I told her that'd be fine but that she would need to mention to the hotel that her daughter had a service dog in training. Our first language is Spanish and I had a hard time explaining to her the difference between a service dog and an emotional support animal but it seemed like she had finally understood and everything was ok. She called me this morning nearly in tears because every hotel she called stated that they did not accept pets and that if it was an emotional support animal that they needed to see a doctor's letter or worse yet, a "registration document" and they charged a fee. I told her that that was not true, as the ADA does not require any of those things for a service dog and although my pup is still in training she has the same rights (as far as I understand) and that she is not an emotional support animal and thus does not need a letter as that is not the reason she is a service dog at all. I ended up telling her not to worry about it and that I'd take care of it and to just at least make sure she could find a room for her and my dad cause worst came to worst my husband and I could just make the drive to and from every day if we had to.
I'm currently just feeling overwhelmed and upset and don't really know what to do. I don't want to show up and be one of those angry ranting customers as I don't think that'll help at all. I considered calling the hotel myself and explaining the situation but my husband said they would probably know it was related to my mom and give me the same spiel and I really cannot get into a heated argument with them about it, that would only make one of my conditions worse so it's not worth it. I think we are just going to visit them and make the drive instead. I am concerned though that the staff will still ask me to get out or to leave Penny outside even if we aren't staying and are just visiting my parents and have to enter the lobby or want to eat at their restaurant, etc. I understand that they are within their rights to ask even a service dog to be taken out if it's misbehaved but that hasn't even happened yet and so far we have no reason to believe she would misbehave, but regardless if she did misbehave then yes, I would of course take her out, that's what I would do for any business that asked if if she was misbehaving. I am fairly certain that the law does state clearly though that they can't preemptively ask us to remove her from the premises when she hasn't even stepped foot inside yet. I'm debating with myself about whether or not we should get her a service dog vest and id, and it frustrates me that we would even have to since the law is also clear that these things aren't required. San Francisco (the Bay Area in general I think, cause it happens down here in San Jose too) has an issue with people getting fake service dog ID's and vests and even fake "service dog registry" papers and I think this may be what some of the hotels are used to/thinking off and that is just maddening to me. My disabilities are invisible save for when I have an episode and then it becomes clear, and one of the tasks Penny is being trained with is to ease the passing of an episode by either using specific methods or otherwise following commands to get help. Unfortunately she cannot help prevent an episode but she can help make it so that when an episode does occur it is not as dangerous to my life as it could be otherwise. These are not things that are evident from just looking at me though.
I don't know if we should just give in and "if you can't beat them, join them" and get one of the fake vests off amazon or somewhere like that and call it a day. It frustrates me to no end since I shouldn't have to and the law states that I shouldn't have to but ignorance is such that I almost feel forced to. I just don't know what to do. I assumed we'd have some issues traveling (we'll have to take several flights come December as we have no friends or family in this area) but it didn't occur to me that we'd be having issues already. Maybe I'm being naive, I don't know. :(
That aside, I realize plenty of people make this drive every day for work but one of my conditions doesn't generally allow me to make trips like this -for airplane rides I have to be heavily medicated- so even though we've lived here in the area for a couple of years we've only been up to SF once and we only got as far as the GGB and then back as my health just didn't allow anymore. I'm doing a lot better now and Penny helps counterbalance the other negative effects of the disorders and with my parents having a hotel room to refer back to in case I needed it, we figured it was a good a time as any to try for a real trip. So that said, if we do end up just having to make the drive every day, does anyone know of some activities that we could do that are dog-friendly where we could take Penny and just have her be a dog for once and not have the added worry? I think I remember people taking their dogs to the Golden Gate Bridge area but with the furloughs I'm not sure that space will be open, and I don't really remember if the dogs were allowed or people were just sneaking them in. I've heard there's a beach around that area as well that lots of people take their dogs to. Any parks that are also good for sight-seeing? I always carry doggy bags on me for picking up after her, and she is always on her leash (and close to me not loose-leash unless she's off training duty and relaxing/playing) and I've heard that SF is supposed to be a really dog-friendly city overall, but my husband is concerned about where she'd do her business. I assume there's grassy areas/lawns, etc like here.
Well, thanks for listening/any help in advance!
Comment
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Comment by Beth on October 13, 2013 at 9:18pm
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Here is the relevant law. Sounds like you need a tag for SDIT
http://www.dogs4diabetics.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/California...
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Service dogs in training are NOT covered by ADA. Laws differ by state. You'll have to see what your state law is. As far as service dogs, my understanding is trey can only ask what tasks the dog performs.
http://2012.servicedogsfl.org/?p=21
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Comment by risingeternity on October 13, 2013 at 8:58pm
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Thank you for your reply Holly! I am glad to know that I wasn't crazy when I had understood that she would be covered in training same as outside of training. I'm sorry that my post was so long, that's why I used a blog post, which are things I've always understood to be spaces to write lengthier thoughts on to than forum posts, which are meant to be short. You've provided a lot of helpful insight, I really appreciate that!
If I understood right, you mean to say that having any sort of documentation, although not required, would make life easier for us? I don't know if I explained well in my blog post but Penny is not an emotional support animal, and as far as I understood based on the ADA's info here http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm and here http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm, I thought I did not need an MD letter stating how she's medically necessary nor does there have to be an agency monitoring her training nor certification or letter. That only applies to emotional support animals. If she was one, then I fully understand that she would require a letter from a professional mental heath practitioner, and that does not apply to my situation. I am however, glad to answer the questions allowed by the ADA regarding if she is service animal required because of a disability, and if so, what tasks she has been trained to perform/is being trained on. It was my understanding that they can't ask me about my disabilities, nor require medical documentation, nor require a special identification card or training documentation, nor ask that the Penny demonstrate her ability to perform the tasks and work she is currently being trained to do as that would violate my rights under the ADA (which I now understand she may not be covered under until she is fully trained, and I have no plans to violate that if so or find any loopholes, etc, as I believe that to be wrong and will respect the law, and part of the reason I'm already having issues is since there are so many fake service dogs and people faking disabilities that it's making it harder for business to tell the difference and there is so much misinformation online with all those fake service dog registry websites. I wish I was faking, I wish I could just make the pain and all the rest just disappear. I have no desire to take Penny with me to the movie theater or anything like that, I just want to be able to leave my house, or be able to hold a 9-5 job again, as I currently cannot leave the house unless my husband is with me to help me -he's my service husband hehe, but he cannot be with me all the time.
Maybe I am still understanding wrong, but I was under the assumption that the law is clear that she does not need to be trained specifically by an agency or even have any testing done. I do think that your suggestions would probably make life easier, but I guess it's the principle of the matter that upsets me because based on what I was understanding, we shouldn't have to provide all that. There are several organizations around this area that will place service dogs but they will also help disabled owners self-train their dogs (as a service unrelated to the organization itself) and will provide testing (and proof of testing I think as well) that the dog meets the requirements established by the ADA. Would that qualify as certification? Penny is currently going through basic obedience and will work her way up to AKC CGC and our hope is to then have her also pass the test provided by one of the service dog trainers in our area. I wish we could have afforded to go through the entire program with them or through the agency they work for but unfortunately that is out of our budget for the time being. If we are able to do so later on then I will immediately move from owner-trained to trained by an agency professional. Based on the information I found they will also test and sometimes provide ID or a "yes I test this dog and can certify that they can indeed perform the following tasks, I am a trainer for XYZ Organization" documents but it is still my understanding that the ADA does not actually require any of that for a dog to be considered a service dog and be covered under the law. I don't know if that makes sense? English isn't my first language and I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself well, I'm sorry! I'm also just so overwhelmed and my thoughts are rambling and confusing.
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Comment by Holly on October 13, 2013 at 7:02pm
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I actually used to answer these kinds of questions for a living. A service dog in training should, IMHO, be considered the same as an actual service dog as they need to be with the trainer in ALL settings during training as well as when they are certified. I have found that to be up to interpretation however, at least in my state, MA. Much of the confusion stems from the countless people who claim to have a service dog that is actually a companion dog. Both are essential, but in my experience, companion dogs are deemed medically necessarily as companion pet, while service dogs are officially registered as working pets to provide physical assistance of some sort. As you probably know, the ADA and disability in general is an area full of misinformation. The trick is to find accurate info. I think there is a toll free number at the Dept. of Justice that you can contact for clarification, but it may be shut down thanks to the government shut down. When dealing with airline access I would not waste a second. Document everything and NEVER assume the other party actually knows the law and how to use the ADA Guidelines with common sense. Each state has an independent living center, a nonprofit run by people with disabilities that promotes the rights of people with disabilities. Many elder care agencies have coopted the name, but only a few are actually run by people with disabilities to help people with disabilities be more independent. One way to check is to ask if they support the Independent Living Movement. If they understand that they are probably run be people with disabilities and will, hopefully, be able to help. They should be able to help sort this out, or steer you toward some helpful resources. By the way, I have to admit, I did not read your full post. Sorry, but I was watching the game. I think it might be wise to shorten your question, perhaps down to two or three bullet points, as I did below. The main things, IMO, that you need to cover are:
- What services does the dog provide? (By you and/or MD)
- How is the dog MEDICALLY NECESSARY? (MD Letter)
- What agency is monitoring and assessing his/her training and certification? (With agency letter)
All documents should include letters of verification to support the need. There is an agency here in MA called NEADS that trains service dogs. They may be able to offer some guidance about dogs in training. Service animals are typically trained by an outside agency then matched with an owner with a disability so you may meet some confusion or resistance, but it is worth researching I think. Good luck!
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Thank you Beth!
I don't know why I assumed it did cover in training, I've read so many articles and materials that I'm having trouble keeping track of what's what, I was pretty certain I had read that they were covered too. I will keep that in mind though, thank you.
Unfortunately we cannot afford to stay at a hotel ourselves, which is why my parents were wanting us to stay with them. They are there for a conference at the convention center and they could only afford hotels near that area that were covered under the hotel room block for the conference. As far as I am aware my mother did not mention her age as I don't think she knows it, though she might have mentioned puppy which I suppose would indicate that she's in training regardless.
After discussing some bit my husband would prefer to just stay here and drive up to the city and back down at night, but it's just a frustrating situation overall. The whole "asking for proof of service dog registry" is really what's going me going, since there is no such thing. It's just upsetting that the "fake" dogs are making it harder for genuine dogs to provide the services their handlers need.
Thank you again for you reply, I think I've perused that website before but it never hurts to browse again!
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I can't imagine how frustrating this must be. Unfortunately, I don't think ADA covers animals "in training" and I believe it's up to each establishment whether or not to allow animals in training access. You mention she's four months old so while she may be on her way to being housbroken, she can't be fully there yet so while I can certainly see why it would be helpful to you to have her with you, I can also understand why a hotel would not want to let her in just yet. Once her training is complete and she can perform tasks that mitigate your condition, then the law is on your side and if you are refused, you will have something to pursue.
You might call and explain she's a service dog in training and ask if they make exceptions, but otherwise you might need to find a pet-friendly hotel. There are usually at least a few, though they may require the dog to be fully housebroken.
Here's a link that might be helpful:
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