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Comment by Mai on November 16, 2013 at 3:34am

Anna, if what I did was called “The law of unintended consequences”. What do you think dog training methods are? You think somebody just woke up one day and said ‘I KNOW how to train dogs’ and went about just knowing how to do it and just doing it. Of course not!

Just because some methods are established as having a high success rate doesn’t mean you will get the same results on every dog.

 

Now the puppy that I just recently got, he’s a classic text book case of just following the established dog training methods. All the reading I did and advice I sought when Chucky was a puppy, I just apply to Freddy and it works like a dream.

 

With Chucky, I had to deviate from the established methods of training and pave my own way for training him. The most valuable lessons I’ve learned from my Chucky is that training, for each dog, can be/may be totally out of the norm for the majority of other people and how they trained their dogs via the methods that they deem is the “correct” or “effective” way. I’ve found that there is no “correct” way to train or “most effective” way to train. There is only the way that will work for your dog.

He was my first dog. When I first got him, whenever we had problems, I would read books on training, read training methods suggested from this forum, searched the internet for training methods, watched videos on youtube, reached out on dog training forums for help, talked to people, and every other source I could get my hands on. Their methods didn’t work for my Chucky. I spent hours beating myself up over what was I doing wrong?

In the end, I just said, ‘Screw what everybody and their mother says! I’m gonna throw everything that I read about, heard about, and was told about out the door and I’m gonna find a way that will work with him.’

Despite all the mistakes I made trying to train him by following the majority of training methods I read, heard, or was told about, once I established the method that worked for him, he blossomed.

I’ve learned that if you try a method for your dog and it doesn’t work, let it go and move on.

Just because it worked for every Tom, Dick, and Harry doesn’t necessarily mean it’s gonna work for you.

Deviate if you have to. There’s nothing written in concrete or stone that you must abide by.

 

Like I said Anna, find a method that works and stick to it.

It doesn’t have to work for everybody’s dogs, it just has to work for your own dog.

Comment by Anna Morelli on November 15, 2013 at 11:16am

Mai, I'm sure you meant well and you are happy the method worked for you, but what you did is to  TRY to turn yourself into a dog which, of course no human can do.  Proof is in what you write: that when he played with other dogs and they yelped he would immediately stop biting, while with you, at your yelping, he would become more excited and double his efforts....

In response you decided to escalate by biting him yourself ( in a manner no dog would have ever done, but as dog-like as you could imagine.  I looked up your profile and, in your description of the dog I see:

"Chuckie (A.K.A. Monster) is almost 1 year old!
Doesn't care for human attention, LOVES dogs and will follow them home if he could(THANK GOD for LEASHES!), is not a good watch dog (He let the burglars make off with all of our valuables, regardless of that, I'm just happy that I still have him), stashes his treats everywhere, would trade me for a dog companion in a heartbeat.....and did I mention he loves dogs? Even more than his favorite treats!
All in all Chuckie is a submissive(a nicer way of saying he is a wimp BUT, he is MY wimp and he doesn't need to be tough when he's got his Mommy to fight his battles for him), happy-go-lucky boy who wishes more than anything to have another doggy in his life so he could PLAY PLAY PLAY!  "

It's called "The law of unintended consequences".  The rest of your post fills in more of the blanks.

I would not recommend this method to others, there are many effective methods, mostly preventive, to elicit cooperation, gentleness as well as confidence in a growing pup.

This is not meant as criticism to you personally, you love your dog and did what you felt was needed, but I must criticize the method you describe, so Mike and other puppy owners think twice before applying it.

Comment by Mai on November 15, 2013 at 1:37am

Just curious, I know this may sound weird, but have you ever tried to bite him back?

I just recently got another puppy and the yelping thing and ignoring him totally works with him when he bites me.

Whereas my first dog, Chucky, FORGET IT! If I yelp, he gets even more excited and it turns into a total bite frenzy. It's odd because when I do it it just excites him but, when a dog yelps he lets go right away.

Eventually, I got tired of it and was like 'Let's see how YOU like to get bitten if you think it's so fun to bite me!'. So, what I did was I would catch him, he's quite slippery when he's in a frenzy, and then I would roll him onto his back so all 4 legs are in the air, hold both of his front legs so he can't turn around to get up and run away, then I would bite one of his front legs. I also made sure that he can't reach my face with his teeth though. I wouldn't say 'bite' really because all I do is put my teeth around his leg and hold it there, sometimes I would apply a little bit of pressure.

He is a total wuss! He would do a high pitch yelp as if I was seriously hurting him when I barely put my teeth on him. I let him go when he yelps, then he shakes himself and swaggers off as if it was HIS idea to stop the biting game.

Every time he wanted to play the biting game with me I would always do the same thing. Gradually, he stopped because HE didn't enjoy me biting back even though I don't even bite him like he does me. I just put my teeth around his arm and I'm not kidding! I don't bite him. Just putting my teeth on his legs is enough for him.

Every now and then he tries to play the biting game with me but, because I always say, right before I catch him to bite him, the phrase, 'You're gonna get bitten!' he knows what I'm gonna do and he goes into a frapping frenzy to get away from me when he hears me say that.

I figured I was gonna treat him the way he was treating me and it worked.

Find a method that works and stick to it.

Comment by Jane on November 14, 2013 at 8:31am

Undescended testicles have nothing to do with temperament.

If he was sold as a show prospect with full registration, I would talk to your breeder. It's highly unlikely they would come down at this point IMO.

Comment by Anna Morelli on November 14, 2013 at 8:26am

With 100% certainty: no this issue is not why you are having difficulties with the pup's nipping, or any other behavior you are experiencing now.  There have been many posts on this issue, that some refer to (incorrectly) as biting, so look up both biting and nipping in the archive for lots of good feedback.  Don't know about horses, but I've never heard of temperament issues in dogs related to undiscended testicles and I've known a few with this condition.  As a matter of fact,  one litter of mine had 3 males and all three ended up with undiscended testicles. Three out of three was a rare event and the Vets felt it could have been due to a kennel cough virus the dam had gotten at a dog show when she was just 3 wks.pregnant.  Who knows?  All had lovely temperaments and none had surgery.... .  In England monorchids are routinely shown and bred and there has been controversy in the USA regarding the AKC position in this matter.  What Beth says is true, although not common. 

Comment by Mike on November 14, 2013 at 7:14am

I got him at 8 weeks and they were not down then. I know one other male in the litter only had one come down. I don't think she is going to breed the sire again. The dame had other litters besides this one so it looks like this issue comes from the sire and this was his first litter. I saw a vet show on tv where a horse had this and the vet said without surgery they would never be able to break the horse. Is this true for a male corgi? I feel like I can't break this one for sure. The nipping and biting are not getting better no matter what I do. I have had puppies before and this is my second male Corgi I'm just wondering if this issue is causing some temperament problems. Maybe if I have the surgery it would calm him down?

Comment by Beth on November 14, 2013 at 7:05am

She placed the elevator pup in a pet home, btw.

Comment by Beth on November 14, 2013 at 7:02am

Was it down when you got him? Our dogs' breeder kept a male for herself who had elevator testicles (they were down and went back up). So the breeder may not have known. I agree with the rest of what Ann said.

Comment by Anna Morelli on November 13, 2013 at 9:21pm

A breeder should not sell a male puppy as show quality if the testicles have not already been felt.  At 20 week,  it could still happen, but the chances get smaller as the weeks go by.  Have you contacted the breeder?  I would expect that he/she would replace the puppy, if it was sold to be shown, or refund the difference between a show pup and a pet quality puppy.  Surgery is optional.  There is a greater chance that retained testicles become cancerous, but it is a chance and even surgery presents chances.

Regarding "show quality" remember that show quality is in the mind of the beholder and no guarantee that you can win, however a dog with a disqualifying fault  (such as one or both retained testicle) is definitely not show quality.  If you bought from a reputable breeder, you can expect fair treatment.