Grumpy corgis
So...I have a 6 year old male pembroke named Gizmo...Very energetic, happy dog, playful, good with kids, not much exposure to other dogs - likes them as long as they dont pay too much attention to him, he knows all the commands like sit, stay, come, lay down, paw, kiss...even high five! some days you can put him in your lap and cuddle him to death, other days, or parts of the day, you cant bother him. If he doesn't want to be touched at all (mostly at night, so we call it him being grumpy), he will growl and snarl at us. He's never bit (once by accident not meaning to...he was taken by surprise), but the growling really bothers me. I've heard lots of times from lots of different people that Corgi's generally have "attitudes" such as this, and they are just stubburn and independent and that's how it is. If i attempt to discipline him, its worse. for instance, if i point a finger at him and say no, he growls. as soon as i put the finger down, he stops. Also, he definitely "talks back" a lot. He gets sent to bed for a few minutes when he snarls at us for no reason, I tell him "go to bed"... and he barks and growls real loud as he walks off to his bed.
So my question is.... anyone else experiences the corgi attitude and grumpyness? And have you found any solutions to it? I have even tried taking him down and holding him on the ground by the scruff to show him who the dominant one should be...although as you could expect, its pretty hard to take down a corgi when they dont want to be taken down, as they are pretty darn strong and low to the ground. I want to call Ceasar Millan!
So my question is.... anyone else experiences the corgi attitude and grumpyness? And have you found any solutions to it? I have even tried taking him down and holding him on the ground by the scruff to show him who the dominant one should be...although as you could expect, its pretty hard to take down a corgi when they dont want to be taken down, as they are pretty darn strong and low to the ground. I want to call Ceasar Millan!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by wendulik on
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It seems that your corgi is starting to dominate over you. Don't use physical power, don't force him (it may be dangerous to hold him down). Try the "nothing is for free" method (or how is it called in English) - somebody on this forum will surely describe this method for you after a while, I'm not an experienced corgi owner. The basics of this method: Don't play with your dog when he comes to you, ignore him. Play with him (and give him a toy) only when YOU want to. It's good to hide all the toys and give one to the dog after he does something you wanted. Ignore dog's barking or misbehaving which he does just to get your attention. Show him, that YOU are the one, who decides about time for playing, time for going out, time for rest, etc. Don't send him to bed to punish him, just simply ignore him or shut the door without a word to let him stay alone in another room for a while. These are really basics, I'm sure you can get a lot of other ideas. If you are not sure that you can manage, contact a specialist (not only Ceasar Millan can help you, there are lots of good behaviourists around you) - it's always better to go to a specialist earlier than later.
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Permalink Reply by Sam on
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If this is a sudden change I would consider two things. First would be if there is a possibility that he may be in pain. If he has not had a complete physical exam in a time this may be a good place to start. Many animals are quite stoic to chronic pain. A major behavior change can be a big sign.
You also need to consider if there has been a major change in the family dynamics....have you moved? Added any new pets? Added any new humans to the home? Has an important person in his life moved away? Changes such as these can also pin point a change in a dogs behavior. Usually these changes also take much of the time you used to spend with your dog.
The alpha roll is really a dangerous thing to attempt and rarely helps in the situation your describe. You would probably do well to start a journal to see if you can identify any patterns in his behavior and what may be the trigger. His reactions definitely are showing great displeasure. Bites are rarely accidental unless they occur breaking up a dog fight. Surprising a dog is no excuse for a bite.
Once you begin to identify the problem then a solution can be worked on. He does sound a bit brash. Only you can determine if this is a sudden change or has been in the works for quite some time. If it is very recent I would think that he has a physical issue going on.
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Permalink Reply by Sam Tsang on
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Hey Kaleena, Gizmo's behavior reminds me of my Mocha when he was young, I am also a Ceasar Millan fan and I have found that the more exercise and walk he gets, his attitude gets better. He is now a zen master and nothing bothers him anymore. I walk Mocha for 30-45 mins a day after I get off work, I play fetch with him in the living room 7-10 times and he's usually fully pooped out. Try it, walk with Gizmo and gain control of him, I truly believe that walking with your dog is the best bonding experience.
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Permalink Reply by Charlie on
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Is he really snarling, lips pulled back with his teeth showing, or is he just grumbling, growling without showing his teeth?
If he is showing his teeth in a threatening manner, then it is a behavior problem you need to fix. I agree with others, using physical force and holding him down is not the right answer. The NILIF techniques are good for most dogs, to stop dominance problems or to prevent them from occurring in the first place. Look up "NILIF" in Yahoo or Google search. You'll find at least 20-30 articles describing the techniques.
If he is just grumbling (no teeth) and barking, it is not a uncommon behavior in Corgis. Charlie has a wide range of grumbles, whines and barks, but does not have an ounce of aggressiveness in his little body. His grumbles sound like a growl, but his facial expression is "loose", his body is not tensed up, and he isn't showing any teeth. I was just reading another forum where a two-Corgi owner has one who grumbles, whines, barks a lot. She said it took her a while to realize this was just his personality, not an aggressive sign.
Try NILIF either way, and hire a behaviorist to come out for a consultation if you think the problem is aggression.
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Permalink Reply by Kaleena on
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yea, he does a little of both...well, a lot of grumbling, plus the actual growling. and i've only tried the holding him down thing maybe 2 or 3 times cuz it didnt work. well,,,actually it sort of did, as soon as he was laying down he stopped and was very calm, but getting him down was pretty tough
But also, in reply to the walking him many times a day and getting lots of exercise, I think he gets more exercise than any dog I have ever known! Plus we live on a dead end road, with a huge yard, when we aren't walking him, we are playing fetch with him in the yard in which he tears around like theres no tomorrow! some days he's out getting exercise for an hour or more at a time just playing around the yard. and is VERY pooped immediately afterwards. well, grumpy or not, i still love him! lol
There have been no changes in the house, he's sort of been like this for quite a while. And when we send him to bed, its only for a few minutes and then i come and tell him he can come out, and he does, and he's nice after that. i only put him in a second room with the door shut when im really fed up or if he's really being unnecessarily bad, he hates being shut in another room. I think that over the years, my family has let him have these little temper tantrums and now thats just how he is. As for the "accidental" bite, i think it truley was accidental. he didn't exactly chomp down, more like i surprised him while he was sleeping by swatting a bug off his bum, he turned around quickly, and my hand happened to be where his open mouth ended up. there was no pressure. and he immediately got up, put his ears back, and sulked over because he felt so bad.
I may call someone again, I actually brought him to a little doggy school type place just to meet with them, and i described his growling and grumpyness to the woman there and she basically told me I aint seen nothin' and she's seen a lot grumpier corgis in her time. So we sort of let it go after that. He is definitely trying to be dominant though. I can cuddle with him, put him upside down in my lap on the floor and rub his belly, as soon as someone else comes over and attemps to touch him while he's having his "nice time with sister", his lips go up.
But thanks for all your suggestions, its definately a dominance thing at least in part, I think we are pretty good on the exercise though. I find it really strange to a point, because he listens to all his commands and follows them great, even when he's in his grumpy mood. One thing that i have started doing that stops the growling quicker than saying No, or sending him to bed or putting him in a room, I will physically push his lips back down and hold them there for a second until he stops. and he does stop. whether or not that is the answer, I dont know. I think bottom line is he's just been a spoiled little brat for 6 years and doenst want to stop
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"...I will physically push his lips back down and hold them there for a second until he stops. and he does stop. "
Well I've never heard of anyone doing this, but if it's working great. If my dog were doing a nasty snarly growl, I think I'd be as far away from his teeth as possible. LOL Sounds like it could be dangerous, but you know your dog better than we do. The "accidental" bite does sound like a reflex action and unintentional...guess that's where the saying "Let sleeping dogs lie" came from. : )
Try to NILIF techniques, and if he's still showing teeth call for another behaviorist's opinion. He really shouldn't be allowed to be snarly and show his teeth at family members.
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Permalink Reply by Avyon on
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Being spoiled isn't a bad thing as long as he earns it ;) We spoil Roxi but the moment she starts to take advantage of it she learned. For example we let her on the couch and on our laps ONLY if we ask her to.. a week ago Chris came home to find her chillin on the couch... needless to say she ended up straight in her crate for time out.
As for the new aggressiveness... the attitude is def. a corgi thing.. ours has the "princess" mode every now and then but snarling or snapping would never be allowed.
Don't ever let him bare his teeth at someone no matter who it is. The instant he does this yell "NO!" to get his attention, stop petting his belly, put him in that crate and leave him alone for a few mins. Any sign like this towards another human can always lead to a baaaaaad situation when you least expect it.
And as for what everyone else has said.. make him work for stuff.. pets can still be spoiled while earning it :) Make em do a trick before meals.. make him sit and wait for you to go through doors AND to put the leash on/off. Sort of put a trick to every game you play.. if your playing fetch make him bark before each through or to lay down.. or to hop onto your lap with the ball and drop it etc.
The other thing people haven't mentioned is Corgi's are so so smart... if they get bored.. they get moody and its not just exercise bored its mental. Maybe try and get him some mind game toys or start figuring out new 'tasks' for your guy :)
Even when we hang out at friends houses we try to keep her occupied.. for exp. When we play pong (not beer pong before you freak out) and the ball is dropped we have her go fetch it for us so she's included. now she watches the table like its the holy grail instead of off getting into trouble.
Goodluck with your guy :)
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yea, he actually does work for stuff. with the couches, he is only allowed on 1 particular chair, and he knows which chair it is, and he's only allowed on it when no1 else is sitting on it. when he is found on the other couches he is immediately told to get down, which actually doesnt happen very often. He does tricks for treats, sits before we go out for a walk or eats a meal, when we play with him, the games are both physical and mental.... when he does get sent to bed...if he gets out before I say its ok, i send him back for a minute, then invite him to come out. we've been yelling "no!" for a very long time when he growls and honestly, it does nothing. So...i've basically been doing everything most of you have suggested, except for the toys thing...keeping his toys "locked up" and only allowing him to play with him when I say its ok. Other than that, we don't let him get away with bad behavior, he works for basically every privilege (other than toys), and responds great to all his commands. That is why its so puzzling to me.
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It really sounds like you're doing everything right. My only other question would be if anyone in the house is playing "roughhouse" with him. Wrestling with growling (human and dog), tug of war, or any other game where he starts play growling can make a dominant dog want to go one step further and do the "snarly" threatening growl.
All of these games where "play growling" is involved are perfectly fine for non-dominant, submissive dogs, but when the dog has elevated to real growling these games should never be played with the dog.
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well Charlie, that’s funny you say that. I didn’t even think of that when I was posting until you mentioned it, but that is definitely the 1 thing I think we should have done differently with him. My dad plays rough with him a lot. Ever since he was a puppy. Obviously not hurting him, but the type of play where my dad will sit on the floor, push him around a little, gizmo will play ground, jump all over my dads lap, jump back and forth sort of like teasing my dad like “come and get me”. and there is a lot of play growling involved. He’s basically the only one in the house who does that, but it just so happens he is probably the one that gizmo growls at the least! Connection there? Hmmm... that’s basically the only rough game he plays, everything else is throwing toys around for him to get, fetch with a stick out in the yard, chasing him around the yard..(he loves being chased)... I even play a little game of hide and seek. There is a small wall between my dining room and kitchen with a doorway on each end, when I hear him coming around one side, I run around the other, and goes back around looking for me, he loves trying to figure out where I am.
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Well I suspect it will be harder to retrain your dad than it is to train your dog. : - ) Your dad needs to stop roughhousing and I bet the dog will stop snarling at everyone else.
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Interesting little update for you all.... I just got a report from my mom....Gizmo has not snarled in a few days now. But here comes the interesting part, my dad has been away on business since Tuesday. Hmm.... my dad's his best friend, my dad is the one who plays the rough games with him, he's the first one up in the morning so he feeds him breakfast and takes him for his first walk....my dad is the one he growls at the least (but does sometimes). Ever since my dad's been gone, gizmo hasn't snarled. I'm thinking maybe he has such a close connection with my dad, he just doesnt want to deal with other people sometimes, and so he growls at us. But since my dad's been gone, he's been sort of forced to be nice to everyone else. that seem to sort of make sense? Just thought it was an interesting little connection there....
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