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Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on January 6, 2010 at 4:29pm

You're exactly right, and the fact that it was on House recently means that it's hitting the "pop science" meter too ;).

No matter how often you worm puppies, they will still have some parasitic infestation. Until they start wearing shoes and underwear, they'll pick them up. The key is not to eliminate them but to keep them at a level where they do not harm the puppy. I would much rather do that with pyrantel or fenbendazole, which are very poorly absorbed (don't go into the bloodstream) than ivermectin. Jean Dodds is the one who has explored the association between ivermectin and the development of autoimmune diseases, most commonly autoimmune hypothyroidism. Given the weight gain and poor coat of so many middle-aged corgis of both breeds, I think thyroid problems are a lot more common in the breeds than anyone currently suspects. So I want to avoid triggering them as much as is possible.

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Permalink Reply by Ellyse on January 12, 2010 at 6:32pm

I 100% agree with you! The holistic approaches failed me many times, so that's when I had to resort to medication...since I swear that I can hear the evil laughter of the gigantic evolved fleas on Molly every time I go to put Frontline on her, I decided to switch to Revolution. The fact that it's a 4 in 1 medication both made me kind of skeptical and hopeful---we'll see how it works. It'll be nice to not have to buy heartworm medication separately, if it turns out that Revolution is successful for me. I thought about Comfortis---but after doing some reading, I decided against it---putting any kind of IGR in my dog's system orally makes me very, very nervous. And I chickened out with the Vectra my vet gave me, because of the high Permethrin level (we used to use that for our clothes as insect repellent when I was in the military, and always received briefings about being "extra careful" because of it's toxicity and such) so that immediately turned me off.
As for my dogs' diets, I have Layne on an all-natural Iams diet---I checked the ingredients very carefully, and it seemed to be healthy enough---and he loves it. Molly is on a diet of Purina, but I plan to switch her to something better soon. Like people, dogs need a healthy balanced diet to help fight and ward off diseases, especially those carried by nasty critters like mosqitoes, fleas and ticks.
The vet also told me the same thing about the backwards sneezing! It relieved me, because I was a little freaked when Layne started doing that...since I'm paranoid with my babies, I of course immediately thought something was wrong. I never saw or heard Molly do that when she was a puppy, so I had no idea!
Luckily Molly had no problems with Interceptor---but you're right, there are many side effects to everything out there. It's unfortunate that your mother's dog had to endure seizures from the medicine---that terrifies me with Layne and Molly with any medicine, but I've been lucky so far. We'll see how they handle the Revolution---hopefully this will be the miracle drug I've been waiting for to finally rid us of the fleas, annoying ticks in the summer, awful ear mites, and the prevention of heartworm. And thank you for the advice, and good luck with Biscuit! :)

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Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on January 12, 2010 at 8:14pm

Iams used to be a decent food, but it's pretty nasty right now. If you are happy with it, I am not going to tell you to switch... but I'm going to tell you to switch :). It has some chicken in it, but every ingredient after that is either a meat byproduct or a super-cheap and low-quality grain byproduct. It IS true that well-nourished dogs can resist parasites, but I've seen the difference show up between raw-fed dogs and kibble-fed dogs, not between brands of kibble.

Revolution is very effective, but it's a large dose of a very harsh medication. In order to be absorbed into the bloodstream and kill heartworm and intestinal worms, it is a much higher (on the order of 10X or more) dose of ivermectin than is found in Heartgard. I prefer not to use it, because ivermectin is associated with autoimmune diseases. You can't really get away from ivermectin entirely, but I keep the dose to the very minimal one that is effective against heartworm. I would only use Revolution if I had a bad mite or sarcoptic mange problem.

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Permalink Reply by Ellyse on January 13, 2010 at 12:38am

GREAT! I seem to be having no luck then with picking the right food! I was thinking about switching them both to Blue Buffalo---has anyone ever tried this? It seems kind of pricy, but any price is worth it for my pups to have a healthy diet. It seems like 9 times out of 10 every food label I look at has some kind of meat byproduct.
It also seems that all flea/tick medications (i.e. Frontline, Advantix, Advantage, Revolution, Vectra, Comfortis, Capstar) have some downsides, with some having potentially health damaging effects in the long run. All of these medications make me weary, and I surely don't want to harm my pets, especially since I have nothing but their best interests in mind. I'm just at a loss, because I don't want to resort to pills, and Frontline (and Advantix/Advantage) are absolutely useless. Ticks aren't a huge issue here, even in the summer, so I'm more concerned about quelling this horrible flea problem (safely). I definitely don't want to overload Layne or Molly's systems with harsh medicine...I'll try Revolution for the first 3 months that I have doses for, and then possibly switch to something else. If I could've depended on a natural alternative like I'd be hoping to, I wouldn't have to resort to messing with this stuff in the first place. Frustrating!

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Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on January 13, 2010 at 1:27am

You may have to widen your horizons of where you buy food - sometimes I've found the best brands at the horse feed store rather than the pet supply store.

Blue Buffalo is one of the standard premium kibbles; its ingredients are going to be very similar to Natural Balance or Wellness or Canidae. It's a good food, as conventional kibbles go, so I'd definitely use that instead of Iams (if you don't want to feed raw or cook the food yourself). Don't buy any of the weird formulas or different flavors; whatever brand you choose get the plain adult formula, which is usually either chicken or (sometimes) beef. The normal adult formula is usually the highest quality (has the most real meat) because they're not importing venison from New Zealand or beaver from Canada. Cheaper meat sources mean they can put more in the bag, and the ingredient lists prove that out.

You can also mix brands and formulas if you want; dogs who react to food changes usually do so because they have had only one thing for so long that their guts have habituated to it. If you give them variety from the beginning they will do fine with it.

Personally, if Frontline stopped working for me I'd go with Comfortis. I've been reading the studies since it was rumored to be coming out and it seems to be very effective and, unless you are using it at high doses on pregnant bitches, safe. It's noncarcinogenic and, aside from a very bitter taste that makes some dogs throw up (feed it mixed with something to avoid this), well tolerated. It has very good efficacy on fleas for between 30 and 60 days and works for about a week on ticks (would be a great tick medication when you know you're going on vacation and will be walking in the woods; not so great if you walk in the woods every day). We haven't switched yet because Frontline is still working for me and I want to watch it for another couple of years to make sure there are no disastrous side effects being reported, but so far all is quiet and more and more breeders are switching.

Just my two pennies.

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Permalink Reply by Ellyse on January 14, 2010 at 6:11pm

Thanks for the advice, Joanna...your two pennies are much appreciated! :) It's funny you mention the horse feed store, because I was actually considering finding one and checking it out. I was just curious for some input regarding Blue Buffalo because I see commercials for it all the time, and plenty of advertisements through Petsmart. I was reading the nutritional value on the bag and it seemed to be favorable. And I definitely don't get any weird formulas/flavors---it just seems to me that the more exotic and/or delicious the food sounds (yeah, ok, some of it sounds good to me even!) then the more additional unnecessaries are in it.
I have fed Molly a variety of food since she was a puppy, and you're right, she does do fine with a mix. I'm starting to do the same thing with Layne as well. When I got him last month, the breeder gave me a small bag of Diamond Puppy...I know that Diamond has had their share of problems, but it seems that they've fixed them. However, I'm still hearing mixed reviews about the brand.
I did look into Comfortis---I just didn't feel entirely comfortable with flea control in a pill form. Even though side effects are common in all medications, the list seemed to be considerably longer than Revolution's, and from the people I've talked to, their dogs experienced some of the more horrible side effects after being administered the Comfortis. I know that Revolution is a mix of a lot of harsh medicine, but I'm curious to see how it works...if either Molly or Layne have any issues, I'll switch immediately.
Frontline worked for me for about 2 months---our flea infestation had gotten completely out of hand though, and the little buggers seem to have become immune to it. I couldn't stand to hear Molly crying from scratching so much because of these unwanted pests.
As for ticks, we didn't seem to have a huge problem last summer---and we live right on the water. Maybe Frontline was working 100% for me in respect to the ticks after all.
I'm glad Frontline is working for SOMEONE! :)

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Permalink Reply by Alice on January 13, 2010 at 10:55am

Ellyse,
Finn grew up on Blue Buffalo puppy food (chicken) and we were very happy with it. It is pretty easy to find in stores which makes it convenient as well. It is more expensive than Iams, Purina etc but the quality is much better so it's worth the cost. It's definitely not the most expensive food you could buy so I think it's a good choice. When Finn was ready to be switched to adult food we switched to Wellnesss Super5Mix (also chicken) and within a couple of weeks he was having major digestive problems. The vet eliminated every possible cause before finally saying we should switch his food. He said Finn may have developed an intolerance to chicken since his puppy food was chicken as was this new adult food. Had I known this could happen I would have gone with a different protein but unfortunately I didn't. Switching the food every so often is a good idea and we still do it now. We switch between Natural Balance Duck and Potato, Natural Balance Venison and Sweet Potato and Solid Gold Wolfking (which is Bison). We have to go with the unusual proteins in order to avoid chicken. Many foods that do not have the flavor listed as chicken still have chicken in them. He does great on these foods and looks and acts healthy and energetic.

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Permalink Reply by Ellyse on January 14, 2010 at 6:21pm

Alice, thanks for your reply---Blue Buffalo does seem to be more expensive than other brands, but price is no matter to me if my pups are eating as healthy as possible. I honestly don't know much about Wellness, but it's unfortunate that Finn had a bad experience with it because of the chicken. It never occurred to me that dogs could develop an intolerance to certain food (i.e. chicken) based on what they were raised on. I've heard nothing but great things about Natural Balance, and have been considering switching Molly to it. I sure hope that Molly or Layne don't develop an intolerance for chicken, because they both love it too much! As for Solid Gold Wolf King, I'd never heard of it until you mentioned it...I looked it up, and all of the reviews were raves.

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Permalink Reply by Christi on January 12, 2010 at 11:02pm

My corgi is about 12 wks also and we've noticed some hiccupping also! It's not all the time , maybe once a day. I havent been to the vet either yet, i was going to ask when i can get there. There's nothing i do for it, it just eventually goes away :)

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Permalink Reply by Ellyse on January 13, 2010 at 12:17am

Christi, I've been rubbing Layne's throat when he gets these backwards sneezes (or hicupping) and it seems to ease it...apparently most puppies have them---it's not harmful, and they'll eventually grow out of it. The vet told me that this is perfectly normal. However, if you're like me, then when you take your pup to the vet you'll ask him/her about it also:)

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Permalink Reply by Alice on January 13, 2010 at 11:02am

Is it hiccuping or backward sneezing? They are two different things. The hiccup sounds just like if you were to hiccup with your mouth closed. You can hear that it's coming from the abdomen. Sometimes taking a drink or patting your puppy's back like your burping a baby will help them go away. They are not a bog deal and very common in puppies.

backward sneezing is louder and the sound is coming more from the throat. It's almost like the build up to a sneeze, with the "ah-ah" and no "choo". It also sometimes reminds me of the sounds ET makes. With this, rubbing the throat or getting the dog to get up and move around can help. Again, this is not harmful and many dogs do it.

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Permalink Reply by Ellyse on January 14, 2010 at 6:23pm

I think what Layne has is the hiccuping----it doesn't seem to bother him, he mainly just looks surprised whenever they occur.
I don't think Layne's experienced the backward sneeze yet---it sounds unpleasant though, and would drive me crazy if I had to go through it! :) Thanks for the clarification, Alice.

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