How to tell the difference between a good breeder website and a bad one.
Most puppy buyers use the Web to look for puppies. There’s nothing wrong with that, as long as you realize that bad breeders are not sticking to the penny saver or ads on the supermarket wall anymore. They know where their buyers are and they know how to pull them in. It’s up to you as a buyer to do your research, but I know it can be very confusing because bad breeders will claim all the same things that good ones do. Here are some things that help me tell the difference.
1) Good breeders use websites to showcase their dogs and their accomplishments; careless breeders use websites to showcase/sell puppies.
- Good breeders picture their dogs doing whatever it is their dogs do better than anyone else. Show breeders have stacked win pictures; field breeders have dogs on point or holding a duck; flyball breeders have professional pictures of their dogs jumping or coming off the box. There may also be candid pictures or pictures with the family, but it’s clear that the focus of the breeder’s efforts is on something besides pets. Careless breeders just have pictures of the dogs sitting down someplace; in my experience the very worst only picture the bitches pregnant or hanging low obviously nursing.
- It’s a major red flag if the pictures of the dogs show them behind wire, especially if that’s the only way you see them. I’ll take a picture through the fence if I see my dogs doing something crazy, but their formal portraits are win pictures and their casual portraits show them at their best, washed and blown out and stacked nicely. If the breeder is giving you lots of pictures of dirty dogs behind chain link, beware.
- Good breeders never have headings called “Mommies” or “Daddies” or “Dams” or “Sires.” They may have “Males” and “Females,” but the dogs are highlighted in and of themselves (and will, as above, be shown doing whatever it is they’re accomplished at doing), not as producers of puppies.
- Good breeders brag about ABILITY; careless breeders brag about PERSONALITY. Don't get me wrong; I think my dogs are hilarious and have wonderful personalities, but they ALL do. Including the rescues who should never have been produced and will never be bred. ALL dogs are wonderful. ALL puppies are adorable. ALL dogs love kids. ALL dogs wag their tails. That's no reason to breed them. You need to look for what makes this dog different from all other dogs, and that means ability, conformation, temperament, health. Not just being friendly and loving, which is part and parcel of being a dog, not being breeding quality.
This cannot be overemphasized – the website of a good breeder highlights their life with their dogs, and the accomplishments of that life, whether in the show ring or the stock pen or the field or the agility ring. Puppies are an (important) byproduct, not the focus of the site. It's vitally important that dogs have a reason for being produced beyond being pets. Remember that pet puppies are the "failures" of dogs being bred for other reasons. If your breeder is involved in the activities that require sound, healthy bodies and minds, their "failures" will still be great, healthy, happy dogs. If your breeder is not involved in anything beyond letting dogs put Tab A into Slot B, they will not have any reason to keep quality, health, and breed distinctives high.
2) Good breeders use the correct vocabulary for their breed and discipline. Careless breeders will try to appropriate the same type of language but they always do it wrong. Good breeders will describe a bitch as “square and typey, this chocolate bitch has lovely open sidegait and is true down and back.” Careless breeders will say “She has a nice stride” or “He’s big and burly.” Good words = typey, sidegait, down and back, sweep (in Cardigans; refers to a dog who is long, balanced, and put together beautifully), balanced, front, rear, socialized, conformation. Careless breeder words = thick, burly, stride, front legs, back legs, acclimated, confirmation. They’ll use nonsense phrases like “relationship stature” or “domestic breeding” or “trained in socialization.” I recently saw one advertise that they breed from “the largest bloodlines available.” My guess is that they mean that their dogs are oversized, but it made me laugh – “My 64-dog pedigree actually has SIXTY-FIVE, so beat THAT!”
3) Good breeders do not highlight the superficial. They don’t go on and on about how pretty a color is, or talk about how the markings on a puppy are so even and nice and that’s what makes the puppy worth buying. They do NOT breed oversized or undersized dogs; if anything they go out of their way to avoid extremes in size. Many, many health problems in dogs are associated with bizarrely large or small size; if you are looking at a dog under six pounds or over 90 lb. (unless it’s a giant breed and supposed to be that big) you should consider very hard and carefully.
- Good breeders do not brag about unusual colors, coat lengths, eye colors, ear shape, or use the adjective “rare” in association with anything but a steak. Good breeders have a hard enough time keeping quality going in the standard colors; they find very little attraction to the virtually always lower-quality dogs in the unaccepted colors. This conviction has been so strong in the past that historically puppies of odd colors were euthanized. Thankfully, that era has mostly passed, but if good breeders do get an odd color or coat type or eye color or is born with curly hair or you name it, the puppy is sold as a pet, not advertised like a sideshow.
4) Good breeders very, very rarely sell individual puppies before eight weeks. They very often have the entire litter sold, but they do not match puppies with owners before the puppies are old enough to grade for show/pet and to temperament-test. Breeders who match puppies with owners before the puppies are old enough to be evaluated are selling puppies based only on color, because that’s the only thing you can tell before the age of seven or eight weeks. Do not buy from a breeder who can only see color.
5) Good breeders do not use the phrase “pick of the litter” or “runt.” Those are phrases used exclusively by careless breeders. We may talk about a puppy being “one of the show picks” or “small at birth,” but those particular phrases are never used. It’s a myth that every litter has a runt. Small puppies who grow normally and catch up with the others in the litter are perfectly healthy and may go on to be our top show picks. Puppies who are unhealthy and cannot grow normally should never be sold as pets. As for “pick of the litter,” it’s meaningless if you’re a pet buyer. Breeders who use it are trying to sell you a puppy by telling you that it was the very best puppy in the litter. If someone uses it, ask what they mean. Most will say something about markings, or color, or some other superficial trait. Those things have absolutely nothing to do with what makes a puppy a top show pick. Another red-flag word is “throwback.” Bad breeders will use this to try to excuse an incredibly ugly puppy who looks nothing like a purebred. You got a Basset with foot-long legs? Throwback. A Lab with a collie head? Throwback. Seventy-pound Dane? Throwback. It’s nonsense.
6) Good breeders virtually never list the weights of their dogs except incidentally. Bad breeders put it in bold type under the dog’s name. This is a ploy to impress you with how big or impressively small their dogs are. Good breeders do not need to list their dogs’ weights because they’re breeding to a standard. You already know that their dogs are going to be in a certain range. Bad breeders often try to go appreciably above or below the standard, producing 100-lb Labradors or 2-lb Yorkies, so they concentrate on a certain weight as being evidence of desirability. This is one more way in which they’re selling the superficial and not fundamental soundness.
Imagine buying a puppy with your eyes closed. Do you get the feeling that you have an adequate amount of information to make that decision from this website? Or has the breeder only told you about coat color, eye color, ears, eyes, or other superficial qualities?
7) Good breeders do not reduce the price on older puppies. If anything, the price goes up. Irresponsible breeders have a market that ends when the puppies are no longer cute, because their puppies were never anything but cute; they didn't have the fundamental quality that gives them value. Good breeders are selling a dog whose value increases with more maturity, training, and exposure to things. Good breeders often retire adult dogs for very little money, but you should never see the price on a three-month-old puppy go down in order to get the puppy out the door.
8) Good breeders have a sense of where their dogs fit in an entire breed and group. The dogs in the pedigree are discussed with knowledge, even if they never owned them or saw them. As above, they will not talk about dogs in the pedigree as being nice pets, or pretty colors. You should hear about how great-grandsire so-and-so is a top producer of herding dogs, or how this one or that one has multiple titles and a wonderful work ethic. They’ll have a grasp of health issues in the entire breed, of how their breed relates to other breeds in the same group, and the unique challenges of owning and training the breed.
You should be thrilled with your dog for its entire life, and you should have knowledgeable support from your breeder if anything goes wrong. You should have a sense of value that has nothing to do with cuteness, and you should walk away with the feeling that your puppy represents the best its breed has to offer. If a breeder cannot offer you those things, please go elsewhere. If you don’t care about breed distinctives, please RESCUE and do not buy at all.
1) Good breeders use websites to showcase their dogs and their accomplishments; careless breeders use websites to showcase/sell puppies.
- Good breeders picture their dogs doing whatever it is their dogs do better than anyone else. Show breeders have stacked win pictures; field breeders have dogs on point or holding a duck; flyball breeders have professional pictures of their dogs jumping or coming off the box. There may also be candid pictures or pictures with the family, but it’s clear that the focus of the breeder’s efforts is on something besides pets. Careless breeders just have pictures of the dogs sitting down someplace; in my experience the very worst only picture the bitches pregnant or hanging low obviously nursing.
- It’s a major red flag if the pictures of the dogs show them behind wire, especially if that’s the only way you see them. I’ll take a picture through the fence if I see my dogs doing something crazy, but their formal portraits are win pictures and their casual portraits show them at their best, washed and blown out and stacked nicely. If the breeder is giving you lots of pictures of dirty dogs behind chain link, beware.
- Good breeders never have headings called “Mommies” or “Daddies” or “Dams” or “Sires.” They may have “Males” and “Females,” but the dogs are highlighted in and of themselves (and will, as above, be shown doing whatever it is they’re accomplished at doing), not as producers of puppies.
- Good breeders brag about ABILITY; careless breeders brag about PERSONALITY. Don't get me wrong; I think my dogs are hilarious and have wonderful personalities, but they ALL do. Including the rescues who should never have been produced and will never be bred. ALL dogs are wonderful. ALL puppies are adorable. ALL dogs love kids. ALL dogs wag their tails. That's no reason to breed them. You need to look for what makes this dog different from all other dogs, and that means ability, conformation, temperament, health. Not just being friendly and loving, which is part and parcel of being a dog, not being breeding quality.
This cannot be overemphasized – the website of a good breeder highlights their life with their dogs, and the accomplishments of that life, whether in the show ring or the stock pen or the field or the agility ring. Puppies are an (important) byproduct, not the focus of the site. It's vitally important that dogs have a reason for being produced beyond being pets. Remember that pet puppies are the "failures" of dogs being bred for other reasons. If your breeder is involved in the activities that require sound, healthy bodies and minds, their "failures" will still be great, healthy, happy dogs. If your breeder is not involved in anything beyond letting dogs put Tab A into Slot B, they will not have any reason to keep quality, health, and breed distinctives high.
2) Good breeders use the correct vocabulary for their breed and discipline. Careless breeders will try to appropriate the same type of language but they always do it wrong. Good breeders will describe a bitch as “square and typey, this chocolate bitch has lovely open sidegait and is true down and back.” Careless breeders will say “She has a nice stride” or “He’s big and burly.” Good words = typey, sidegait, down and back, sweep (in Cardigans; refers to a dog who is long, balanced, and put together beautifully), balanced, front, rear, socialized, conformation. Careless breeder words = thick, burly, stride, front legs, back legs, acclimated, confirmation. They’ll use nonsense phrases like “relationship stature” or “domestic breeding” or “trained in socialization.” I recently saw one advertise that they breed from “the largest bloodlines available.” My guess is that they mean that their dogs are oversized, but it made me laugh – “My 64-dog pedigree actually has SIXTY-FIVE, so beat THAT!”
3) Good breeders do not highlight the superficial. They don’t go on and on about how pretty a color is, or talk about how the markings on a puppy are so even and nice and that’s what makes the puppy worth buying. They do NOT breed oversized or undersized dogs; if anything they go out of their way to avoid extremes in size. Many, many health problems in dogs are associated with bizarrely large or small size; if you are looking at a dog under six pounds or over 90 lb. (unless it’s a giant breed and supposed to be that big) you should consider very hard and carefully.
- Good breeders do not brag about unusual colors, coat lengths, eye colors, ear shape, or use the adjective “rare” in association with anything but a steak. Good breeders have a hard enough time keeping quality going in the standard colors; they find very little attraction to the virtually always lower-quality dogs in the unaccepted colors. This conviction has been so strong in the past that historically puppies of odd colors were euthanized. Thankfully, that era has mostly passed, but if good breeders do get an odd color or coat type or eye color or is born with curly hair or you name it, the puppy is sold as a pet, not advertised like a sideshow.
4) Good breeders very, very rarely sell individual puppies before eight weeks. They very often have the entire litter sold, but they do not match puppies with owners before the puppies are old enough to grade for show/pet and to temperament-test. Breeders who match puppies with owners before the puppies are old enough to be evaluated are selling puppies based only on color, because that’s the only thing you can tell before the age of seven or eight weeks. Do not buy from a breeder who can only see color.
5) Good breeders do not use the phrase “pick of the litter” or “runt.” Those are phrases used exclusively by careless breeders. We may talk about a puppy being “one of the show picks” or “small at birth,” but those particular phrases are never used. It’s a myth that every litter has a runt. Small puppies who grow normally and catch up with the others in the litter are perfectly healthy and may go on to be our top show picks. Puppies who are unhealthy and cannot grow normally should never be sold as pets. As for “pick of the litter,” it’s meaningless if you’re a pet buyer. Breeders who use it are trying to sell you a puppy by telling you that it was the very best puppy in the litter. If someone uses it, ask what they mean. Most will say something about markings, or color, or some other superficial trait. Those things have absolutely nothing to do with what makes a puppy a top show pick. Another red-flag word is “throwback.” Bad breeders will use this to try to excuse an incredibly ugly puppy who looks nothing like a purebred. You got a Basset with foot-long legs? Throwback. A Lab with a collie head? Throwback. Seventy-pound Dane? Throwback. It’s nonsense.
6) Good breeders virtually never list the weights of their dogs except incidentally. Bad breeders put it in bold type under the dog’s name. This is a ploy to impress you with how big or impressively small their dogs are. Good breeders do not need to list their dogs’ weights because they’re breeding to a standard. You already know that their dogs are going to be in a certain range. Bad breeders often try to go appreciably above or below the standard, producing 100-lb Labradors or 2-lb Yorkies, so they concentrate on a certain weight as being evidence of desirability. This is one more way in which they’re selling the superficial and not fundamental soundness.
Imagine buying a puppy with your eyes closed. Do you get the feeling that you have an adequate amount of information to make that decision from this website? Or has the breeder only told you about coat color, eye color, ears, eyes, or other superficial qualities?
7) Good breeders do not reduce the price on older puppies. If anything, the price goes up. Irresponsible breeders have a market that ends when the puppies are no longer cute, because their puppies were never anything but cute; they didn't have the fundamental quality that gives them value. Good breeders are selling a dog whose value increases with more maturity, training, and exposure to things. Good breeders often retire adult dogs for very little money, but you should never see the price on a three-month-old puppy go down in order to get the puppy out the door.
8) Good breeders have a sense of where their dogs fit in an entire breed and group. The dogs in the pedigree are discussed with knowledge, even if they never owned them or saw them. As above, they will not talk about dogs in the pedigree as being nice pets, or pretty colors. You should hear about how great-grandsire so-and-so is a top producer of herding dogs, or how this one or that one has multiple titles and a wonderful work ethic. They’ll have a grasp of health issues in the entire breed, of how their breed relates to other breeds in the same group, and the unique challenges of owning and training the breed.
You should be thrilled with your dog for its entire life, and you should have knowledgeable support from your breeder if anything goes wrong. You should have a sense of value that has nothing to do with cuteness, and you should walk away with the feeling that your puppy represents the best its breed has to offer. If a breeder cannot offer you those things, please go elsewhere. If you don’t care about breed distinctives, please RESCUE and do not buy at all.
Comment
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Comment by Joanna Kimball on December 3, 2009 at 3:40pm
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Yes, personality definitely makes a huge difference in a show dog. You want a dog who is social and happy and loves people. Some of that is because they're just so much easier to show and love the process, and some of that is that a dog who loves the show ring will naturally show off. They'll show their expression, keep ears up, stack with their heads up, and so on. An average or even mediocre dog who will show off his body will finish faster than one who creeps along or won't show ears or eyes. A shy dog can be jollied along long enough to finish but it's definitely an uphill battle.
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Comment by Alice on December 3, 2009 at 3:36pm
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Thank you for the in depth response. I love being able to talk to breeders and learn new things.
I haven't heard of Hunte before and am glad to have that information. One good thing is that when I asked the pet stores here if they can get Cardigans, they all said no. They must have a hard time finding a Cardi breeder willing to be their supplier which I'm happy about. I hate seeing dogs in pet stores and always wonder what happens to that Golden Retriever who has outgrown the cages and is looking more and more like a dog and less like a puppy. Maybe I don't want to know the answer to that.
So people do come looking for specific markings. I too wanted a half black face and one blue eye but it wasn't a must. I think most blue merles have nice markings. I knew I didn't want a fluffy though. It sounds like it depends again on which breeder you go to. Some will work with you as long as you are specific and willing to wait while others may not be so flexible. I totally agree that health and personality are the most important but it's such a bonus to find one that is the perfect package in your eyes. is personality taken into consideration when selecting show prospects?
I have noticed that each breeder favors specific traits and I agree that you must choose a breeder who breeds for what you want rather than go to a breeder who breeds for smaller more athletic dogs and be disappointed when the litter doesn't produce a heavy, big boned, wrinkly dog. I think it is important to see the males and females in residence as well as at least seeing pictures of previous litters.
I don't know what kind of personality evaluation was done on Finnigan, but we did do the Volhard test when we got him. The most surprising result was with the touch sensitivity test. His response time very high and I think that is part of why we've had to work harder in training him. Nothing physical phases him. I know a dogs development depends a lot on the owners and how much time they put into training. We started training very early but he's still been a challenge none the less. I look at him and look at my Mom's Cardi (the one who was shown until his ear fell at 10 months) and I think, God, those breeders must have the magic touch because her dog was calm and well behaved from day one and even after all the work we've done with Finn he was a little gremlin at 10 months. :)
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I guarantee you that the pet store is buying from puppy mills. The "we use reputable local breeders" line is a classic one, but if you look at the documentation the puppies are usually from Hunte (the biggest puppy mill buncher and broker) or another big mill broker. It's like the used car salesman who tells you that the minivan you're looking at belonged to his sister and he was planning on keeping it himself if you don't buy it. It's just the standard line and means nothing.
Dogs that are being retired are often appreciably cheaper than the puppy price. However, that's because they've done their job (in the show ring or in the whelping box) and the breeder doesn't feel right about asking money for them. A dog with a major behavioral problem like rock-eating would certainly fall under the category of a dog that you wouldn't ask a lot of money for. That's not the same as a three-month-old or four-month-old puppy who stuck around a little bit longer because the breeder was evaluating them and has decided to sell in the end. Breeders of different breeds vary on how they handle the young adult dog (say, eight months old). When I had Danes they were usually a few hundred more than the pet puppy price - so I'd expect to pay maybe $1800 for one as a pet. Some Cardi breeders seem to put them more in the category of a retired dog and place them for little money. Either way, the point is that there's no value being lost because the dog isn't cute anymore. If anything, the dog is more valuable because all the puppy work has been done and it's nicely trained.
If you (the collective you) as a puppy buyer want a certain look and won't be happy with anything else, you need to be VERY up-front with the breeder and expect to wait a little (or a lot) longer for a puppy. It's absolutely true that if I only have two merle bitch puppies in a litter, and both are evaluated as show quality, I'm not going to sell you one as a pet just because you prefer merle to black, or vice versa. If you feel that strongly I would invite you to wait for the next litter or refer you to other good breeders. Even right now I know someone who wants a very specific look, as a matter of fact; she wants a merle bitch with a half-black head. She's been looking for maybe three years now, and is still looking because every bitch that has been born (at least that I am aware of) with that specific marking pattern has turned out to be a show puppy and has either been sold for show or retained by the breeder.
As a breeder I'm not going to be annoyed that your preferences are that specific - unless of course you don't tell me ahead of time but decide at eight weeks that the puppy doesn't have enough white on her face for you or something; that would be rather grating, since temperament and personality mean SO much more than color - but I'll be honest with you that the more specific you must be the longer you may have to wait.
If you want a specific conformational quality - like a long neck or extremely heavy bone - that's where you need to do your homework and pick a breeder who feels the same way. I personally don't want a basset-y Cardigan; I want something high enough on leg that she won't hurt herself when she's herding, and she has to be extremely athletic. So while I will go for a short typey leg I will actually de-select any with leg wrinkles or extreme dwarfism. So people coming to me for my "failures" may get a dog too high on leg or too light on bone but they should be sound and small and have a lot of drive. Someone else will just love the super dwarfy dogs, so when you get their failures you won't get too much leg, but you will probably get a forward-set upper arm or a wonky topline (both, in my experience, go along with the very very short legs) or a dog that's TOO heavy and low-set. One more time, it comes down to being a smart and savvy consumer and insisting on getting a dog from a great breeder, and knowing what that breeder produces.
To match puppies with owners, we utilize two different forms of temperament testing. One is the Volhard PAT and one is a more agility- or working-dog-based test that uses many of the same elements but scores them differently. Both allow us to either confirm what we're already seeing or open up new insights into the puppy. There have been plenty of dogs whose results have surprised me, because I would have pegged them as (for example) relaxed, but during the testing they show a very high innate play/prey drive. That's why we don't just rely on our own impressions of the puppies. We've found the Volhard test to be pretty well predictive of the puppy in the new home until such time as the owner's training (either deliberate or accidental) takes over. No temperament testing can replace good or bad ownership. Behaviors that were not anticipated by the temperament testing are usually things that the owner needs to work on - and by that I mean the owner needs to change about himself, not the dog!
Just to clarify, though, it's not a tradeoff between finding a good home and making money. NOBODY makes money on puppies if they do it right. Every litter I lose thousands of dollars. I would literally have to charge about five grand per puppy and have at least two litters a year to break even if you look at my yearly expenses. Since I don't even come close to that, the amount I charge for a puppy might offset two weekends of showing but that's about it. The reason we ask a certain amount for a puppy is that we want the new owners to feel that they have received something of value, and that we have given them something that is worth the respect of their pocketbook. Almost every breeder has given away puppies and regretted it later, when it's obvious that since there was no wound to the pocketbook the mental value assigned to the puppy - and to the breeder's own involvement - was far too low. It's just a fact of human nature that you invest more in what you perceive to have value, and you give up sooner on what you perceive to be worthless.
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I feel the same way. What they say may or may not be true but it's hard for me to swallow and I personally would not buy a puppy from a pet store.
My only regret is that our breeder is not a good personality match for us. At the time I didn't realize how important it was to be able to communicate comfortably and freely with your breeder. I've talked to a lot of wonderful, helpful breeders but unfortunately the breeder we went with was not as great a match for us. I have talked to other breeders that really like him though so I wouldn't hesitate to refer people to him, I will just be more choosy with who we go to for a puppy in the future.
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Comment by Sky and Lyla on December 3, 2009 at 1:45pm
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Alice, I have a pet store in my area too that claims to buy from reputable breeders and fight against puppy mills. While I might be able to be convinced they don't buy from puppy mills (although I'm not totally sold on this one yet either, it's too easy to say you don't agree with puppy mills but still support them), I do not believe their dogs come from reputable breeders. Every reputable breeder I've dealt with wants a detailed "application" before they will even talk to me (and in my search for my new show/performance dog I have dealt with a lot of reputable breeders, now some of them may not have been very nice or been a good fit for me, but they were all reputable). A truly reputable breeder would never allow their puppies to sit in a cage for 3, 4, 9 months with no socialization or training.. not even getting taken out to potty! I refuse to even shop for food or toys in stores that sells puppies because I think it is absolutely awful!
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I know you mentioned that the price on older puppies should never be lowered but I just want to clarify. Are you referring to a puppy available to a pet home that no one has chosen yet? Our breeder as well as a couple others I've talked to have placed show prospects that didn't turn out as planned for little or no money and same with retired adults. I had a local breeder offer me an adult female who was returned because she ate rocks and after several surgeries the owners decided to give her back. The breeder knew we lived in an apartment and was willing to place her with us at no cost to ensure that she would be safe from eating rocks. I don't see a problem with this. Perhaps they are more concerned about finding a good home for these dogs than they are about making money. I do see the problem with lowering the price of a puppy who no one wanted though. I was just curious if there were situations where you would consider it acceptable to lower the price.
Every breeder I've talked to has a contract which ensures the well being of the dog being purchased and all will take the dog back at any time and often require that you return it should you become unable to keep it. They don't want you to sell or give the dog away to an unfit home. We had to read, initial and sign the contract.
It wasn't an issue when we got Finn, but when breeders say they will choose the puppy that best suites the buyer, how does that work? When Finn was 8 weeks old he was very sweet and quiet. As he got older he became very rambunctious, excitable, stubborn and rebellious. He's been quite a challenge. Neither us nor the breeder observed that when he was little. The other part I wonder about is what if the puppy the breeder thinks fits you best is not what you want. Of course appearance doesn't matter for pets but that doesn't mean the buyer has no right to want a certain look. As a buyer, I knew what I wanted. I had a picture in my mind of what I wanted and a dog is a big commitment (you can’t just settle for what’s available until the new model comes out next year) so I think you should get what you want. My dog may not be competing for a championship but I can certainly appreciate beauty and of course there's a reason for choosing a specific breed. I love their short legs and so would I want one that is very leggy ? Of course I would love it but I'd prefer one closer to the standard if I have a choice. As you said, the pet puppies are the “failures” of the breeding and no matter how much a buyer loves the breed, this is what they get to choose from and if the breeder is matching you with a pup then you really don’t get much of a choice at all. Of course you could decide not to take the puppy but then you lose your deposit in most cases. I hope no one thinks I am criticizing their methods or that I sound superficial. I just want to understand the process better. I love all animals no matter what the appearance but I don’t think it’s wrong to find one dog’s appearance more appealing than another. I’m very happy with the puppy I got but it was either fate or pure luck that we got just what we wanted (minus the hip issues). The one thing I specified from the beginning was that I did not want a very dominant male. The breeder knowing that I’m sure would not have allowed us to take one no matter how attractive and we would never have chosen to do so either.
Having said all that, I do think your guidelines are very helpful in finding a reputable breeder. Thank you for taking the time to post this. It will no doubt help a lot of first time buyers.
Oh, one more question, sorry; I would not personally buy from a pet store but there is a local pet store who claims they buy from reputable breeders. They said there are no breeding laws in place here in AZ and puppy mills are a big problem so all of their puppies come from reputable out of state breeders. I was always under the impression that a good breeder would not sell to a pet store because they then have no control over who ends up purchasing the puppy and what kind of home it will have. What's your take on it?
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Elizabeth, the first thing you do is you figure out what the good breeders (of whatever breed you are considering) should be involved in, in terms of peer review of their dogs. In corgis of either breed, it would be conformation showing or herding (though very few do serious herding with corgis unless they are also show breeders). In something like a Cesky Fousek, it would be versatile hunting dog activities including certification and field trials. In Border-Staffie crosses, it would be flyball. And so on. Then you go look for breeders who are obviously involved in whatever that discipline is. One of the easiest ways to verify is to find your local or regional purebred club (for example, around here the Pem club is the Mayflower PWCC and the Cardigan is the Yankee CWCC) and contact their breeder referral service. But even if a breeder isn't a club member you should be able to ask them about their involvement in that peer-review activity, and they should be very happy to talk about it.
Once you know that you're in the right pool of breeders, start asking about the health testing you're concerned about. In Pems there is a strong expectation that breeding dogs will have hips and eyes tested and many also test elbows, thyroid, and vWD (a bleeding disorder). In Cardigans there is less consensus but PRA would be an absolute must and many also do hips and eyes.
That will narrow it down further, and then you look to find a breeder who is a good match for your priorities. Every breeder is different and we tend to obsess over slightly different aspects of what we consider perfection. For example, I care a huge amount about producing a smaller and more athletic dog who can herd. My good friend cares much more about suitability for obedience. Another one does a ton of agility. Another really likes the larger, heavier, "dwarfier" dogs. None of those are right or wrong (as much as I'd like to needle them about it), but they are going to make one or two breeders a better choice for you as a consumer/buyer. That and a personality match with the breeder should make your final decision for you.
If you've done the first two steps right (involvement and health testing) you're not going to have a lot of wrong choices to make; you get the pleasure of choosing between several right choices to find the one that suits you best.
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Comment by Elizabeth on December 3, 2009 at 12:48pm
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How do you pick the right breeder? I got my Corgi from a local breeder. I knew the litter he was from was not a planned litter. I thought I asked all the right questions, but when I tell local dog owners who I got him from they just give this look like "I'm sorry poor dear." How do I avoid this in the future? How do you get the right answers to the right questions?
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Joanna, thank you for this valuable information. It is often hard to know where to start with breeders when all you have is a website. Anyone can look good on a website, but with so many people's lives being busy and more and more being done online, that is how most people look for dogs anymore. It's always good to have a few rules to keep in your back pocket when doing your searching.
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Katy, I actually require it. None of my puppies (or eventual adult dogs) can be transferred to anyone but back to me.
Puppy-back clauses are pretty standard, but honestly the real question is whether you feel that you have been given all the information you need and you're comfortable with the contract and the breeder behind it. When people come here to get a puppy, I sit down with them and go through every clause of the contract and they must initial beside each paragraph that they read it and understand it. THEN we bring out their puppy. I don't want them being blinded by squishy puppy and just agreeing to whatever I say, especially since I have some really tough stuff in there about not breeding and their responsibilities as owners. But what I do is not the only right thing - the right thing might be nothing more than a handshake. Some of the happiest puppy "contracts" I've had were a hug at the door and the knowledge that I could call them with anything. What's critical is that you feel like you're getting what you paid for, a lifetime of support and a well-bred puppy.
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