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Permalink Reply by Sam on February 20, 2008 at 8:13am

If you truly wish to contribute to the breed may I suggest that you first start by showing this boy. This will put you in the circle of true fanciers and people that know the structure, movement and desired characteristics that a quality corgi should possess. It is not usually suggested that folks breed a corgi until they are two years of age. This allows them a bit of time to mature to see what the adult dog will look like. This will also give you time to perform the desired health testings of which some can not be certified until this age. It would be good to find yourself a long time corgi breeder/exhibitor to help mentor you in the ring. Do remember that while he may have all of his working parts it doesnt necessarily he has the qualities that are an asset to the gene pool. Keep in mind as well that an active stud dog is likely to have a bolder personality, especially when he is in the company of other intact males. This is not a decision that should be taken lightly and one that should be heavily investigated. There is much more that goes in to breeding quality dogs then the working parts.

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Permalink Reply by Megan on February 20, 2008 at 10:54pm

I have to say Sam took the words out of my mouth. There's a lot more to having a stud dog than keeping the essential tools. Please, please, PLEASE consider showing him and getting a title to prove that he is the standard and can pass on those qualities down the line.

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Permalink Reply by Junipurr on February 21, 2008 at 9:09am

I understand both of your concerns about responsible breeding. I had NO plans to breed irresponsibly and if you look at another recent thread I started, I DO plan on showing them BOTH!!! I got them from a reputable breeder/shower NOT a puppy mill.

I knew that I needed to wait until at least two for Daisy I wasn't sure about the age with a male that is all. I know that there are numerous health tests, etc. and I wanted the beginning information which both of you (Sam and Megan) provided. Thank you!! That was the start I am looking for.

Sam, I came here to try and find someone like you are describing. Breeding is NOT the sole reason we got them but it was one of the reasons we got unrelated "kids" and why we want to show them both. We chose carefully with these two. We got them from a breeder whose husband was having some SERIOUS health problems so she needed to sell some of her stock. We got a puppy, Donald and Daisy a year old girl who the breeder had gotten with the intent of breeding herself! Both from the same breeder.

I understand your concerns but just because someone might ask a question DOESN'T mean they are irresponsible. In fact, I was trying to BE responsible by asking the question.

Thanks for the input though I guess I should have put more information in my original post!

-Jennifer

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Permalink Reply by Sam on February 21, 2008 at 9:59pm

Please understand that no one referred to you as irresponsible but my intent is to inform folks of what path reputable breeders follow. I will tell you that typically reputable breeders do not sell intact dogs for the sole purpose of breeding. While the folks you purchased them from are having health issues it would seem to me that if they were purchased by them as show prospects that the breeder would have taken them back when they fell upon hard times.
It would always be my greatest hope that people that are intent on breeding learn about the show ring, learn about the health testings and have goals in mind. It is always a red flag to me to see people asking about breeding long before they ask about showing. Do know that just because these are unrelated pups does not mean they will produce well together. In actuality many reputable breeders do "line breeding" in hopes of reinforcing the best characteristics of their dogs. Breeding "outcross" litters (no common lineage) sometimes produces well but often produces litters that are most inconsistent. Most reputable breeders seek out males that best compliment their females.
Learning to read pedigrees would be most helpful to you at this time. May I suggest that you start attending shows in your area and make sure to buy a catalog. You can start to get an "eye" for what the judge is looking for, learn about movement, structure, correct head planes, good length, etc. You will learn how a corgi is groomed for the ring, how the nails are done, how their coat is managed.
You would also do well to become involved with your regional corgi club. Mentors are priceless when becoming involved in the fancy of pure bred dogs.
Working heavily in rescue, instructing at our local dog club shows me how many dogs are bred for the sake of breeding. The stories I could tell.........just this week we had a call from a gal that "wanted to become a breeder" She was well advised by her vet that c-sections are most common but didnt plan ahead. When the time came of course it was the middle of the night and her beloved girl was having much difficulty. She lost all the pups and needed an emergency spay. When she was presented with a bill over $1,500 she was devastated and unable to pay the bill. She had to surrender the dog. She is heartbroken.
So you see my mission is not to label anyone irresponsible but more to encourage them to start from the beginning. So many are so quick to breed without learning about the breed they love. There are countless breeders out there that breed only to sell. Learning well prior to getting in so deep will help you make conscientious and informed decisions. You can bet having a good corgi mentor will help you learn and make good decisons.

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Permalink Reply by Junipurr on February 21, 2008 at 11:00pm

I understand concerns about irresponsible breeding and people interested in breeding just to make money. We researched different breeds for months and months before figuring out that corgis were for us. We talked to five different breeders before choosing our dogs. We got them in an unusual situation. The girl was sold to us because of her wonderful temperment to be around our autistic boy. The boy because we wanted a "watch dog" and a high energy companion for the other children.

Although some would (and many do) just breed to make money, that is not us. Oh, and btw the breeder even with all the family health problems they were dealing with said to call if there were ANY problems keeping them and they would take the dogs back.

I want to be responsible and find out more info and get involved. That is why I am here!

I rescued an abused bassett hound (pure bred bassett hound - papers and all) had her spayed and loved her all her life!! I know what you are talking about. We want to make absolutely sure we are responsible and that is why we are asking questions ABOUT breeding BEFORE we breed.

We picked the dogs we picked to have Corgis!! We planned on chosing dogs to show because it would be good for the six kids we have between us to be involved in that for fun and their own discipline. We are reaching out so that we can learn even more about the dogs from those who are experienced with them. Breeding is actually a back burner thing that we would ONLY do if ALL the information warranted it.

Thanks for your reply.

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Permalink Reply by Charlie on February 21, 2008 at 11:57am

One of the reasons to wait for two years is that you cannot get a permanent OFA hip rating until the dog is two years old. You can get preliminary OFA ratings now just to make sure neither of your dogs have bad hips. If they get an Excellent or Good preliminary result, the odds are that they will at minimum rate Fair at two years. If they get a preliminary rating of Fair, they may decline to Poor by 2 years and should not be bred. Certainly a "Poor" preliminary rating at this age should take them out of the breeding pool and save you lots of time and money spent showing the dog(s). I'd expect with what you've said about your dogs background that they "should" test with fine hips, but HD can show up even in the best of lines.

CERF testing can also be done now to make sure that their is no sign of genetic eye disease which shows up in some Corgis. This test needs to be done once a year as long as you are breeding to make sure their eyes remain good.

The other test for Type I vWD condition should be done now for Von Willebrand's clearance. I believe you only need this test one time, but it should be done while the dogs are young.

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Permalink Reply by Junipurr on February 21, 2008 at 12:39pm

Thank you so much this is perfect preliminary info!

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