Dog food. Small dog or big dog?
Also I noticed call of the wild doesn't have a small dog formula. Would it be ok for small dogs? Toby(schnoodle) is only 7# maybe 8 soaking wet. Can anyone post some links that talk about small vs big dog, dog food for corgis? Also, would it make a difference that Sasha is mixed and so small?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on
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Wag.com gives prices per pound on the various foods, making price comparison easier.
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Permalink Reply by Andrea on
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I did my maths wrong then LOL! However, Blue Buffalo is wildly overpriced.
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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My very experienced breeder recommends and herself uses a large breed puppy food. Remember, ALS does not mean it is IDEAL for all life stages, just that it is acceptable. The large breed food we used had similar protein and fat contents to the adult food, so would not promote fast growth or over feeding. However, it had additions like DHA that many ALS foods lack.
Please remember that on the internet, everyone is an expert. Visit the Dog Food Advisor website and you will see this:http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/about/
"Welcome! My name is Mike Sagman. And as the editor and creator of this community, I believe it’s important for you to know a little about my background.
I’m a graduate of the Medical College of Virginia with a doctoral degree in dental surgery.
My college curriculum includes a major inchemistry and a minor in biology."
Now, why he would know more than a vet is beyond me. His background is certainly not in animal biology. The internet, though, is teeming with folks who will tell you "Don't listen to your vet . Go to this site instead." And listen to the dentist, I guess.
I may sound cynical, but again, everyone is an expert. It's become common wisdom on any dog food discussion that "grains are bad for dogs." Why? Who knows, no one says. They refer you back to another discussion where other people say it, but not to any actual studies or research that show grains are bad for dogs. Mostly, I read it's because "wild" dogs would not eat grains. Very true, because they lack the gut to remove the hard outer shell and so it would pass undigested through their intestines, as it would for people. But GRIND the grain and now dogs (and people) can digest it just fine.
And then, after pronouncing grains are bad because wild dogs don't eat them, they will refer you to a grain-free food made with potatoes and/or pea flour. Of course "wild" dogs did not eat potatoes or peas any more than they ate grain, but that point never gets made.
Another point is often made that a dog's stool is smaller when fed a low-grain or no-grain food. I don't know about you, but I have never heard of small stool being an inherent sign of improved health in any mammal.
There are lots of feeding studies done. They are all done by big-name food companies (mostly Iams, Science Diet, and Purina) that are despised by most of the people who participate in food discussions.
The reason I get upset is because inevitably, some person's dog gets some sort of chronic kidney or heart disease, and their vet recommends a prescription food, and then the owner goes online and finds DogFood Advisor or someone else gave the food 2 stars and now they don't want to feed it.
Anyway, we feed Iam's Lamb and Rice and our dogs are happy and healthy and in great condition. We could feed less of a higher protein food that costs a packet, but personally I don't see many good reasons to switch. When you are reading a dog food web site, please look carefully at the FAQ and About Us. Personally, I see a lot of high-priced, high-protein, boutique foods selling like crazy mostly based on internet circular discussions with no research to back them up. IF your dog is running Iditarod or field-trialing all day several days a week, you need an extremely high-fat high-protein food so the dog is physically capable of consuming enough calories to stay in condition. If your dog is a pet, your acceptable options cover a much wider basis.
To answer your question, the reason toy dogs need small dog food is because they have such tiny stomachs (and usually appetites) that they have trouble eating enough to keep their energy up. Corgis are usually "easy keepers" who need LOWER energy food to stay in proper weight. Many people, in fact, add "empty" food like green beans just to add bulk. Dogs digestive systems are not identical to humans'. They can and do process carbs like grains just fine, but they make easier work of proteins and fat as an energy source than we do.
Your Corgi is a mix and mixes can have traits of either/both parents. So please do talk to your vet about her body condition and whether she is getting enough energy to meet her needs. However, the biggest feeding-related problem with pet dogs is obesity, so be mindful of that when choosing.
Good luck and listen to advice with your eyes wide open! Don't be afraid to ask people where they got their information. Check sources. I have posted before, for instance, the studies of digestibility of grains by dogs. Most zoos feed a medium-protein (20-odd%) to their wolves and they have zoologists looking for optimum results. And dogs evolved eating human cast-offs, and so the dogs who best digested the scraps that they were given are the ancestors of our dogs today.
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Here's an example of the reasoning as to why dogs should have low carbs:
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/canine-nutrition/dog-food-carbohydrates/
But here's the thing: almost invariably (except in elephants, whales, and a few other animals) CAPTIVE animals live much longer than their wild cousins. The animal's wild diet is not "ideal" but is what is available. A whitetail deer will eat bark in the winter. Does that mean bark is an ideal food? No, it means it is what it can get.
Wild canids are either pregnant or nursing (in the case of females) or helping raise young (in the case of males). They live outside in all weather with high parasite loads, high rates of disease, and high mortality. Most of them travel dozens of miles a day.
Coyotes (also canids) will adapt to eating many things, including fruits and road kill. They eat what they can get. It does not mean it's an "ideal" diet.
Pseudo-science is a big draw online. Just be careful of your sources.
Here is an example of a study comparing dental health in wolves fed kibble vs meat (kibble was better). It had nothing to do with the food itself, but this is what a feeding study looks like:
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Permalink Reply by Rebecca on
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I have to get Toby a non-wheat food because he is alergic to gluten. Truthfully the thought of human grade ingredients appeals to me. We have no idea Sasha is mixed with and when we got her shots I did not get an exam with the vet. She is tiny though so most likely a toy breed. You can see the couple of pictures I have of her thus far.
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My mom's Yorkie and my Grandparents' Chihuahua and Westiepoo are all on Acana. They do great on it. Super duper healthy.
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If you want to make sure you have "human-grade" ingredients, you need to make it yourself. :-) Or visit the plant when it's made.
They are not taking whole chicken breasts and putting it in your dog's food.
"Chicken - the clean combination of flesh and skin with or without accompanying bone, derived from the parts or whole carcasses of chicken or a combination thereof, exclusive of feathers, heads, feet and entrails"
That's the definition from AAFCO:
http://www.braypets.com/FRR/aafcodef.htm
Claims like "human grade ingredients" are not required to be backed up.
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Ingredient quality claims. A lot of pet foods claim they contain “human grade” ingredients. This is a completely meaningless term — which is why the pet food companies get away with using it. The same applies to “USDA inspected” or similar phrases. The implication is that the food is made using ingredients that are passed by the USDA for human consumption, but there are many ways around this. For instance, a facility might be USDA-inspected during the day, but the pet food is made at night after the inspector goes home. The use of such terms should be viewed as a “Hype Alert.”"
From the FAQ here: http://www.bornfreeusa.org/downloads/pdf/PetFoodReport_BFUSA.pdf
Chicken at it's cheapest is about 99cents/pound unprocessed, as you buy it in the store. They then need to clean it, cook it, mix it, package it, ship it, advertise it, etc. The dog food you buy does not have nice big cuts of chicken in it, at least not in most cases.
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Please remember, the goal of every dog food company is to sell you their food. If they are very expensive, they have to find a reason to make you want to spend the extra money.
Do yourself a huge favor and spend some time reading some feeding studies. Then feed what you like, but remember that if some guy has a website and says "I spend hours reading labels" that makes him an expert on labels, not health outcomes.
To understand health outcomes, you need dogs in controlled environments with different diets, and then compare how they do.
BTW, none of what I said applies to cats, who are obligate carnivores.
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Acana/Orijen do use human grade ingredients. My vet has been to Alberta where Champion Foods makes all their kibble. They use whole chickens, lamb, bison, ect. They even make you food using their ingredients. I have heard from many people regarding their plants stating that they really do make the quality they boast.
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Permalink Reply by sarah & tapiola on
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I agree there is a ton of empty jargon used to sell pet food. However, the Honest Kitchen DOES actually, literally make human-grade pet food. They are regulated & inspected by the FDA:
http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/resources-and-programs/faq#faq4
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Thank you. Those links are worth more than someone's opinion, as qualified as they may be. I have been asking for proof. It's very easy to be swayed by fancy phrases like 'human grade' but how do we know it is? Andrea if Acana is so great hunt me up some proof. On that website you gave me Blue is rated 4 stars. I don't understand why you are so against that dog food when the same website you rely on gives it one star less than Acana. I understand there have been recalls. There have been recalls on cars. We don't automatically stop driving that car. The company figures out how to fix the problem and puts out the new and improved product. Who is to say that Blue hasn't done the same?
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