Male Corgi Development - "Filling Out"
Hello all!
Marty is my first corgi and honestly, my first male dog. Our vet recommended (and most of the ones in our area) to have him neutered between his 5th and 6th month of age.
He has been doing great -- but wow, he's so muscular and already starting to "fill out" at just 18 weeks. Few places I have read online (and even I believe on here somewhere), the males generally tend to "fill out" after a year or two.
He's on Orijen Puppy dry food, given a very small amount of canned as a food topper, and given a puppy supplement recommended by the vet (she is aware of his diet). We walk and run A LOT....his body is very toned. We call him a "Little Bodybuilder" because of how bulky he looks in his harness. :P
I just want to make sure he's developing at the right rate. I'm a little new to male dog development, because I had a female border collie and a female border collie x old English Sheepdog mix in the past. Both weren't "buff"; they were dainty and fluffy. :] Not to mention, the male dogs I have been around on a regular basis and watched them grow up (my friend's lab for example) were neutered at a fairly young age.
I'll definitely consult my vet when we take him in for his neuter next month, but I thought I'd ask around and see if others on here have had their male corgis develop and fill out a little faster. :] I just want to make sure I'm not "over doing it" and to see if it's normal for this particular breed.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Zigward & Kimberly on
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I've read a lot on this site that puppy food shouldn't be fed to Corgi puppies.. Does something to their growth, etc.. Someone else will elaborate more, I would do it, but I would more than likely just make it more confusing.
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Permalink Reply by Laura (and Marty) on
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Thanks for the reply! Interesting though -- the breeder told me she feeds her corgi puppies up to about 8 months of age on a puppy-specific dry formula, then transitions to adult formula.
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Permalink Reply by Jane on
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Most people recommend a large breed puppy or an all life stages formula. The premium puppy foods make them grow extremely quickly which isn't good for their health in the long run.
How much do you walk and run with him?
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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Agreed; we went with large-breed puppy food, which has protein levels similar to adult food.
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Permalink Reply by Melissa and Franklin! on
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Franklin didn't fill out until after 1 year old. He was a TALL skinny gangly thing no matter how much I fed him.
What did his parents look like? Were either of them real stocky? To me 18 weeks seems quite young for a pup (male or female) to be filling out. Like others have said, feed a large breed food or all life stages. What brand does your breeder feed? Orijen is SOOOOOOOOOOO high protein, I just looked it up and the puppy food is 40% protein. Even their large breed puppy has 38% which is still super high in my opinion even for an adult dog. We had a discussion on here a while back about protein content in food and most studies indicate somewhere around the 20% range is all that is necessary generally. Here is a link to the protein discussion: http://www.mycorgi.com/forum/topics/protein?id=1150197%3ATopic%3A14...
perhaps the super high protein diet is causing him to fill out at such a young age.
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Marty is extremely active, so that's why the vet suggested increasing the protein in his diet. We usually run/walk an hour or so, twice/three times a day (depends on if I'm working or not), with some obedience/agility drills on days with nice weather and romps in the dog park. Really, I just noticed the filling out with in the last two or three weeks and he's been working on his agility training for almost a month now. Of course, we do it for fun, not professionally; he's still a pup. :] We just keep him going because he gets bored soooo quickly and it's a great way for us keep his mind off teething.
His father was pretty "stocky". His mother didn't seem large.
I can understand why most people recommend the Large Breed formula though. I was hesitant on the formula since I brought him home. Vet said a puppy formula was fine and to give him a puppy supplement. We visited again for his last set of shots and I told her he was extremely active and she suggested trying the high protein diet, as long as long as we intended to KEEP him active. Hopefully, it's not too late to switch if need be. It was kind of hard to find something he would enjoy. :/ He hated foods like Blue Buffalo and Innova. He liked Wellness alright though... hmmm. But I'll consult my vet again about it. Wonder if the supplement I'm giving him isn't supposed to be good for him either.
Thank you for the advice!
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Its great that your vet is so involved. I personally though would not feed a supplement. There is NO need when feeding a quality kibble (or even a not so quality kibble these days) to supplement the food. Also, most vets don't think of corgis as large breed due to their size, so unless your vet really knows corgis, I would mention to him/her that a corgi is considered a large breed dog. My internal medicine specialist and a radiologist diagnosed my corgi with an enlarged heart that led to an cardiac ultrasound only to find his heart was perfectly normal and due to the fact that corgis are true dwarves, their internal organs appear larger (more like a large breed dog) on x-ray!
As for the high protein, here is a link that Beth shared a while back
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=459#answer_4
as you can see even racing sled dogs (think 100 miles A DAY) don't even have a recommended protein content of 40%. Not sure where Orijen gets their info, but ALL the studies I have ever seen and read recommend a much lower protein content and what Orijen says is biologically appropriate for a PET dog does not fit with what all the other studies I have read have proven with scientific research. I don't think it would be too late to switch if that is what you and your vet decide.
Franklin was SUPER active as a pup too. Sounds very similar to your boy, he went to a dog beach twice a day for an hour and was in agility and rally. Blue Buffalo Wilderness, pretty much free feeding him, wasn't enough to keep weight on him, and he also didn't like it so that's why I switched to Taste of the Wild. Anyway, talk to your vet about what he/she would recommend for a LARGE breed dog as far as food and protein content and see what advice you get. Good luck!
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How much are you actually running of that 2-3 hours? That is a LOT of "forced" exercise for a 4.5 month old puppy, in my opinion. From what I've read most breeders don't recommend any serious physical activity like prolonged jogging until they're at least a year old and the growth plates are closed. If you're doing agility too I would stick to all ground work, no jumps until he's at least 12-18 months old.
I would be somewhat concerned if he looks overly bulky for his age. As Melissa said 40% protein is really high for a puppy. It is preferred that the pup grow very slowly, otherwise you get bones growing faster than the tendons or muscles, etc. It's great that your vet is involved, but many vets have very little education in actual dog nutrition so that's just something to consider.
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Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on
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Walking is great for a puppy, running is definitely not, unless he is running on his own in a natural setting (like his own yard). Running (as in jogging, for instance) is hard on his developing skeletal system and promotes un-natural muscle development which will actually constrict the growing skeleton ( givinf an apparance commonly referred to as "muscle-bound). This seems to fit your description of the puppy. The same applies to jumping, which should never exceed the height of the puppy at the elbow.
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@Jane - Oh gosh, we definitely don't "jog" or do any "forced" running. I, myself can't do that -- not in the shape for it. XD I guess I should perhaps have clarified more. When we run, it's usually reach an open field and he just bounds off and we chase each other or play ball and it's for a few minutes within that hour. As for agility, we don't jump yet -- just the tunnels. :] Learning bit by bit; he's scared of some of the equipment still. And definitely agree with you on the lack of nutrition knowledge from vets. But I always ask her each time he sees him to ensure he looks well.
@Melissa: Yeah, I actually was leery about doing the supplement since I was feeding him a quality kibble. But, I just thought "Well, the vet knows best!"
I was unaware that we shouldn't have these dogs be very active -- since...well, I assumed they were an active, herding breed. It's just really confusing to me. :/ I'll try to switch to a lower protein diet, try to cut down on the activity level (as long as he doesn't get bored/destructive) -- hopefully it's not too late. I want him to be studly, but definitely NOT, if it's not healthy. Gah, perhaps a corgi wasn't the best choice for me this time around. I don't want to be a bad or ignorant pet parent...
Thank you so much guys for your opinions and advice. Please pray for Marty; I hope I have not already ruined his health. :/
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Permalink Reply by Mitch on
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Laura, it might be worth asking yourself some other questions before you freak out too much. First, how much does your dog weigh? Does he seem to be digesting the food well (well-formed stools, etc.)? Have you shown your breeder a recent photo of Marty and gotten his/her perspective on the dog's size, musculature, and so on? If this is your first corgi, and you don't have anything to compare him to, you might have misconceptions about what he "should" look like.
I'm asking this because I seriously doubt his diet and trips to agility class are turning him into a muscle-bound pre-adolescent who is doomed to a life of poor health. I don't want to contradict all of the other advice you've been given, but I feed both of my corgis Acana, which has a similar protein profile to Orijen (same parent company) and they do very well on it. My 10.5 month old puppy put on a little less than one pound a week on it, and he's at a great weight now and nowhere close to having adult muscle tone.
I'm in agreement with the others that you might want to switch to an adult food (we transitioned H. to Acana grasslands within two weeks of bringing him home), but do it slowly to avoid stomach upset. Try not to beat yourself up too much--I'm sure Marty is fine.
P.S.: your vet probably already told you, but after you do the neuter, expect Marty to grow more since neutering delays closure of the bone platelets. After we got H. fixed, he had a little growth spurt.
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Franklin was allowed to play as much as he wanted as a puppy. I didn't do any jogging or running or jumps in agility but he did go to the dog park and dog beach and we went on walks, etc and he grew up just fine. I think the exercise thing is more referring to taking him jogging/running and/or agility jumps etc. In all honesty, to me a puppy running in the back yard will be the same as the puppy running at a park. I don't think you have ruined him, and Mitch had a good point, is he your first corgi? Perhaps he looks just as a growing corgi should but if you aren't used to what a "normal" corgi puppy looks like he may appear abnormal to you? Can you put up a recent picture of him? Maybe that'd help.
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