Prey Model Raw Diet
I'm just curious if anyone else feeds a prey model raw diet to their Corgi? I've been prey model feeding Grissom and the results are absolutely incredible. It's a rather controversial diet, as people have a hard time remembering their digestive tracts are much different than ours, therefore eliminating all the bacteria issues.
Vets tend to not recommend this diet, mostly because they know nothing about canine nutrition, really. My vet gave my dogs raving health reviews. Then I told him what they eat, and he frowned upon it but couldn't give me a single reason why. Also, when I asked why he recommended the food he did (Iams. >.<) he couldn't give me any reason other than "it's good" but couldn't tell me what ingredients make it good.
If you also feed prey model, what problems has it fixed for your dogs? What does your vet think? Does your family think you're nuts? lol What made you go prey model rather than kibble or BARF? How long have you been doing it? What meats, bones, and organs do you include in their diet?
Vets tend to not recommend this diet, mostly because they know nothing about canine nutrition, really. My vet gave my dogs raving health reviews. Then I told him what they eat, and he frowned upon it but couldn't give me a single reason why. Also, when I asked why he recommended the food he did (Iams. >.<) he couldn't give me any reason other than "it's good" but couldn't tell me what ingredients make it good.
If you also feed prey model, what problems has it fixed for your dogs? What does your vet think? Does your family think you're nuts? lol What made you go prey model rather than kibble or BARF? How long have you been doing it? What meats, bones, and organs do you include in their diet?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on
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The worms that cause trichinosis encyst in pork tissue. However, because of that the law is that all fresh-slaughtered pork must be frozen for a certain amount of time to kill any encysted worms; there's no danger to dogs eating raw pork.
I honestly think it's backwards logic to ask for prey-model raw feeding to prove itself. It's the diet the dog is designed by millions of years of evolution to eat; the mouth and the gut of the dog has not changed appreciably since it was domesticated. Feeding kibble is the thing that's a dramatic change (and I am not sure how much I can emphasize dramatic - as in "truly freaky-deaky," not any sense of a gentle change) in the way dogs eat. I should be asking you to prove that Iams is actually meeting the enzyme, protein, antioxidant, etc. needs that a dog has.
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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Joanna, I'm simply pointing out that in human studies, some foods have increased nutrient/antioxidant availability when cooked, even though we too evolved to eat raw foods exclusively. Others lose nutrient availability. And I'm genuinely curious as to the balance of loss vs gain. I'm sure you are well aware that there are plenty of people out there making similar claims that humans should only eat raw food as well, and for all the same reasons.
As far as proving anything, if I ever tell you that what you feed is "freaky deaky", I will be more than happy to back that up with some sort of evidence. However, I have never said any such thing. I have questioned claims, yes, since it is my nature to look at science over belief, but never disparaged what you feed, nor would I.
For the sake of not getting the thread shut down, I will leave it at that. You have beautiful dogs and you obviously love them and care for them as you feel best.
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What goes in to dog food isn't "cooked." There's decent research into how different forms of cooking (from blanching to broiling) change the protein structure and nutrient content of different foods, but it would be useless when it comes to talking about the meat in dog food.
Dog food meat is processed at high temperatures under pressure until the cells release all their moisture and the fat cells empty of their contents. The different liquids are run off and what is left (basically a kind of mostly fat-free sludge) is dried and powdered, then mixed with other dried and powdered ingredients and extruded into kibble.
The closest you could come in your kitchen would be to put half a chicken into a pressure cooker on high and then keep opening it and pouring off all the liquid, stirring it around, closing it and cooking more, pouring off all the liquid, etc. After several hours you'd take out what was left and put it into a blender, then spread it on a cookie sheet and cook it in the oven until it was dried powder.
When you are looking at nutrient comparisons they're analyzing a meat that's been cooked but still retains a lot of moisture and a normal cellular structure (i.e., the fats and cell contents are still present, though the proteins have been hardened by cooking), not a meat that's been rendered. That's why I think the job is to prove that the rendered meat has anything close to a normal nutrient profile, not that raw food does.
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Permalink Reply by Linsey & Grissom on
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''prey model raw'' is a diet consisting of 80% muscle meats, 10% bone content, and 10% organ matter. (not including intestines or stomach content, dogs don't need that)
You do have to be careful with gulpers and bones. Bone content is necessary for a source of calcium and as a binding agent for solid stools. Bone can be ground for gulpers. Never feed cooked bones.
Meat, bones, and organs deliver all the nutrients a dog needs. I buy all my dog's meats in the grocery store. If you follow the 80-10-10 ratio and use multiple meats there is no way they can have any nutritional deficiencies. This ratio can be achieved in each meal, over a week's time, or even over a month's time.
I feed fish once a week to keep coats extra healthy, cutting shedding way down.
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Permalink Reply by John Wolff on
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YES! BE CAREFUL! We lost a gulper to a turkey neck. She'd had no trouble with chicken necks.
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Permalink Reply by Julia on
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What about brain and nerve tissue and prion disease? There's a big problem here with Chronic Wasting Disease in our deer herd, comparable to Mad Cow Disease. Many hunters won't eat what they kill anymore, until after they've had the carcass tested. Some just donate their kill to food pantries (hmmm....gotta wonder about that one.) Aren't dogs in danger from that?
As for rabbits being pretty clean, Lilli gets repeated worm infections from eating bunny poop. I would be concerned about that also in this sort of diet.
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Normal rendering does not kill or deactivate BSE prions, so if you're concerned about your dog being exposed it's probably actually safer to feed stuff that you know has not been contaminated by spinal or brain tissue. It's more likely that a dog would be exposed by eating a lamb and rice or red-meat kibble (since sick and dead sheep and cows end up in kibble) than by eating a raw diet based on human-grade ingredients.
What worms is she supposedly getting? I don't know of any worms that dogs can get from eating rabbit poop.
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The first time she got the dreaded "Bunny Worm" the vet told me the name, but I don't recall it. She said it is one that rabbits tend to have, and my little light bulb made the connection between them and Lilli's habits. The vet agreed, that is how dogs can get them. She also said it's one that Heartguard doesn't cover (darn!) Because of our fence, I don't think she's eating raccoon or turtle or moose, but there could be squirrel.
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Coccidia? That's the only thing I know that dogs can get from rabbits, but it's not a worm and they can get it from everything else too. It's everywhere in the environment. Heartgard plus kills most of the true intestinal worms; the only one it doesn't kill is tapeworm, which a dog could only get from eating the intestines of a rabbit infected with the larval form of the dog tapeworm (very uncommon in farmed or commercial rabbits). The rabbit tapeworm isn't contagious to dogs.
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