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Permalink Reply by Beth Walker on July 21, 2011 at 11:52am

My female Corgi had constant re-occurrig infections, her urine showed she had to much protein in her urine. I switch her to Nutro NO-Grain Venison and Potato because it is only 20% protein whereas a lot of these other high end foods are over 30%.

So far it seems to be making a difference as we have not had any more infections since then. Hope Seanna gets better soon, I know it is so uncomfortable for them.

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Permalink Reply by Melissa and Franklin! on July 21, 2011 at 1:15pm

If she isn't getting better on wellness (which is a high protein food) you will likely have to call around to some of the other food manufacturers to see what the pH of their food is. Generally speaking, higher protein= lower pH, meaning a cats urine will be more acidic (lower pH) than a dog's urine. Likely the special food they want to put her on is specially formulated to lower her pH.  Unless you want to call the food manufacturer and get ALL the details on the food the vet recommends, then call all other food manufacturers to find an equivalent food, it may be a good idea to just put her on the specially formulated food for now. Or the only other option would be to find a holistic vet and see what they recommend doing. Also there is a surgical procedure to remove that fold of skin. Its done quite frequently on bully breeds and may be something you should consider for her. Surgery is expensive but in the long run with all you have dealt with, it may end up being cheaper just to get it repaired now. I'd be interested to see how the cranberry is working. Franklin had struvite crystals as well and I just put him on a higher protein variety of his normal food (Taste of the Wild) and he had a UA done on Tuesday and it came back totally normal.

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Permalink Reply by Sam Tsang on July 21, 2011 at 6:37pm

Hi Jen,

 

"Struvite" crystal (Magnesium Ammonium Phosphate, AKA Tripple Phosphate) is diet related. Stop the Wellness Healthy weight now.

 

The Royal Canin Urinary SO rx food have normal levels of protein, magnesium, phosphorous with extra sodium. Less protein means less urea, lower levels of these materials also decrease the quantity of crystals that can potentially be formed. The increase in sodium will encourage Seanna to drink more water, producing a greater volume of urine to flush out the bladder. It'll keep the ph around 6, preventing further stone formation. The Royal Canin Rx food is only temporary, once Seanna's system is clear, she can go back to a good diet. 

In order for the cranberry pill to work properly, Seanna needs to drink lots of water, an alternative to that is pure cranberry juice with no sugar. Yes, it is the most expensive kind with no apple, other cheap berry juice added, no artificial sweetener, no high fruitose corn syrup, no splenda, sweet / low, just straight tart cranberry juice. The juice will prevent bacteria from adhering to the lining of the bladder.

Check with your vet if you have any questions.

 

Once Seanna is recovered, switch to a lower protein food. Good luck and get well soon!

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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Markley on July 21, 2011 at 7:57pm

We started the Royal Canin SO food today.  I started mixing her food with the cranberry juice again tonight so she'd get more water intake, as well as to help keep the bacteria away.  What do you recommend for a diet after we get her off the Royal Canin?  Can I go back to the Wellness or what other foods are good to feed her?  Keep in mind her weight is an issue....

The vet wants to do XR's to see if she has any stones in her, and we talked about sending a culture off to make sure she doesn't have some weird anti-biotic resistant bacteria...but other than the food, nothing is supposed to change.  And I have a question, some say to swtich to a lower protein food, while others say a higher protein level is what keeps the bacteria away....chemistry was never my strong point, so I need alot of help on this one!

 

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Permalink Reply by Jane on July 22, 2011 at 4:04pm

I'm not 100% positive but I think a lower protein diet is usually what helps keep stones from forming. If you look at (for example) the Science Diet urinary tract food, the protein level is 22%, and if I'm reading the chart correctly it looks like the Royal Canin Urinary food is only 14% protein.

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Permalink Reply by Sam Tsang on July 22, 2011 at 10:19pm

Hi Jane,

 

You are correct. It really depends on what stages of the disease / kidney or bladder only, what kind of stones and their composition. Hills k/d 14% and u/d 10%, Royal canin SO 14%, UC 18%, LP mod 11% and MP mod 14%. 

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Permalink Reply by Sam Tsang on July 22, 2011 at 10:06pm

Hi Jen, if I was in your situation, I would finish the antibiotic treatment + Royal Canin SO first, have a urine culture done 1 month afterwards, when everything is clear, then you can consult with a professional.

 

Weight is a simple math solution, less food, more exercise, considering everything else is in check. No biggie, it just takes time. No special food needed.

 

I agree with your vet's plan to x-ray her for stones. If there are indeed stones in the kidney / bladder / urinary tract, sharp edges might have scratched and damaged her inner linings, causing repeated bacterial infection. That's why your vet needed the culture first to determine what kind of bacteria / antibiotics to resolve the problem.

 

Struvite stones are saturation of magnesium, ammonium and phosphate, stones happen when there's not enough water to flush out the minerals, that's why you'll need to feed Royal Canin SO, it should produce urine pH below 6.5 (more acidic), if there's no excessive stones, it should clear up in a month.

 

As far as high protein vs lower protein goes, every dog is different, what works for one breed / dog does not translate to other breed / dog. The focus should be on "higher quality" protein over low quality protein. Generally, animal protein, corn gluten, calcium chloride and calcium sulfate produce acidic urine. Vegetable protein and calcium carbonate on the other hand produce alkaline urine. I've read the original 1986 paper "Long-term renal responses to high dietary protein in dogs with 75% ...." where dog food company keeps quoting it / justifying high protein diet as safe. Read the paper and understand how exactly the research was conducted, how long was the research, how many dogs were in the study, what kind were they, how old were they, how many died along the process, how did they died, how many survived in the end vs how many kidneys were examined / used to come up with the conclusion, their actual paper conclusion (not the abstract one that everyone is quoting) and what the researchers wished to do even further (they questioned themselves), then you'll understand 1 research paper cannot refute other research papers saids otherwise. In my opinion, the research is flawed. 

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Permalink Reply by Melissa and Franklin! on July 21, 2011 at 8:50pm

Everything you ever wanted to know about struvites/struvite crystals written by a vet tech. Pay close attention to the point near the bottom where reoccurring infections are likely due to the fact that the infection was never fully treated or treated properly in the first place, also clarifies the importance of doing a culture/sensitivity BEFORE and AFTER so you know you got the entire infection. Yes its expensive, but again in the long run its cheaper than treating the same infection over and over again.

 

http://vettechs.blogspot.com/2005/05/so-your-dog-has-struvites.html

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Permalink Reply by Julia on July 22, 2011 at 12:22am

Lilliput had this problem. She had both types of crystals, but needed the PH lowered. There's a discussion here ("Bladder Infection??? June 27, 2010, inCorgi Health", sorry, I don't know how to make it a link) where I explained the diet that my vet and I came up with for Lilli. I didn't want to keep her on the prescription diet for the reasons you mention. Her urine has been clear, dilute, and at a good PH level since then. Check out that discussion, it may help.

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Permalink Reply by Kasey, Max, & Zoey on July 22, 2011 at 1:43am

Zoey our female pembroke pup is having the same problems with reoccuring bladder infections. So any advice you can gather I would love to use as well. Antibiotics arent taking care of it.

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Permalink Reply by Beth Walker on July 22, 2011 at 2:07pm

We had a female that the Antibiotics did not seems to work, but it was because she was not on them long enough. Took her to a different vet that put her on antibiotics for 30 days and that cleared her up, how long have the treatments been on Zoey?? It may be if she has only been on it a few weeks at a time that it is not getting all the infection cleared out, it can be tough to get rid of!

 

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Permalink Reply by Melissa and Franklin! on July 22, 2011 at 3:49pm

read the link I posted above. Has a lot of good information. I guess the main thing is to make sure to do a urine culture and sensitivity to make sure you are treating her with the right antibiotics and second make sure to do a culture AFTER you are done with antibiotics. Many times you will need medications for at least 3 weeks, it may take longer and the only way to know would be to culture after the antibiotic course.

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