Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Melinda (Penny's Mom) on July 27, 2009 at 3:10pm

Oh so cute! Can you tell me more about your puppies. I have a couple of friends who have fallen in love with Penny and are interested in getting their own Corgi babies...they are hard to find in MN!

Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on July 27, 2009 at 5:47pm

Hi Melinda,

I would love to tell you more about my puppies but I don't want to on this discussion. Yes they are hard to find in MN and other neighboring states. Could you email me at mulliganpeace@yahoo.com and I will give you more info!

Yhanks!

Jane

Permalink Reply by CorGeek on July 27, 2009 at 3:57pm

As someone who hopes to have a PWC someday, this is my take (after reading WAY too much) on the tail/no tail issue.

The official standard in the US states "Tail-Docked as short as possible without being indented. Occasionally a puppy is born with a natural dock, which if sufficiently short, is acceptable. A tail up to two inches in length is allowed, but if carried high tends to spoil the contour of the topline." The standard has been altered in the countries that do not allow docking. Do you intend for these to be show-quality dogs? If so...well, the standard is there for a reason, but it could change. If not...it's your choice.

Normal docking doesn't hurt the dog, scar the dog mentally, or make the dog an outcast among tailed-dogs. Having a tail also doesn't hurt the dog physically (accidents not-with-standing) or mentally. It's almost like we humans care more about the tail than the dogs do. ;)

Ultimately, to me, a PWC is a PWC, and I would love them with or without a tail. But a PWC with a tail is not a Bunny Butt. :( But they're still darn cute. We'd have to come up with another name.

Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on July 27, 2009 at 5:29pm

Just wondering if you have been present at a tail docking or done your own??? Doesn't it seem a little strange that so many coutries in Europe now ban the docking of tails and I believe from what I've read they can't be shown if they have their tails docked if they were born after 2007.We don't get to claim them for a working dog on our taxes . Why have they changed this ??? Does anyone know for sure??? And yes...I have one female that has champ bloodlines and one that doesn't but the most important thing to me is finding a good home for my pups and I know the standard but I like what John has to say...

Permalink Reply by CorGeek on July 28, 2009 at 2:15pm

I have never been to a tail docking or docked a puppy's tail. That said, I've read a lot, seen a lot, and talked to a lot of people on all sides of the fence.

I must admit, I find it silly that we (humans) are so concerned about messing with Nature when it comes to "cosmetic" procedures in purebreddogs. There is nothing "natural" about the PWC! It would not exist except that for hundreds of years men and women have been carefully breeding to achieve specific traits.

Again, that said. I love the little guys. Tail or no.

Permalink Reply by Kathleen Mallery on August 21, 2009 at 6:18pm

I've been flipping through the "health" venue a bit and find some interesting things.....

1) seems many of the "breeders" chatting are what are referred to as "pet breeders".
2) there are few "professional"/"show" breeders sharing experience and knowledge.
3)there is a lot of "less than accurate" information being shared

I'm wondering why this is. Pet forums definitely need the "expert" advice.

Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Kathleen Mallery of Castell Welsh Corgis. I have been breeding and exhibiting Pembrokes for over 25 years. I also have Cardigans, some of which I have imported from Finland as many of the USA Cardi's are a bit too "Pemmy" for my liking. I have bred many champions, performance titled dogs and placed even more in the important capacity of companion. Our small kennel boasts 4 consecutive dogs in 3 consecutive generations to go to top honors. We've been to Westminster 7 times and won awards, we've qualified every year except 2 for Eukanuba, winning Best of Opposite Sex to Best of Breed in 2005. I have worked as a vet tech and, under the supervision of MY vet do much of my own vetting with my dogs.

This particular topic introduced, tail docking, has been discussed at great lengths amongst what you would all call "show breeders". The biggest dilemna has been interpreting the Standard. Quite frankly, there are NO gray areas, IMO and others. The Standard says "docked as short as possible"...." up to 2" is allowed" period. That's pretty specific.

The question has been raised if pet people would buy a puppy with a natural tail and mentions the docking bans in other countries. A couple things need to be understood.

First, Pembrokes WERE ORIGINALLY a bobtail or tailless breed. The Standard of any breed attempts to PRESERVE the breed...that means keep it as it originally started. The Pembroke Standard in the United States has NOT been changed since 1972.

Second, docking bans have been instigated by animal rights activists, NOT knowledgable dog people! This is only ONE step in their efforts to advance their agenda....we won't get into the politics of this subject. In countries where docking bans have been put in place, responsible breeders have and are making great efforts to revive the natural bobtail. In Norway, their Kennel Club is actually assisting the breeders. In Boxers, natural bobtail boxer has been produced and IS recognized by the Kennel Club of England by crossing the boxer with a bobtail corgi. This detailed project can be read online.

MOST responsible breeders do not actually dock their puppies, we BAND them. An elastic band is tied around the tail close to the end of the first vertebrae and the tail dries up and falls off the first week of life, there is no trauma whatsoever to the pup. Being a responsible breeder means one breeds with the welfare of the breed and resulting pups in mind. In the USA and some breeders in other countries test our breeding stock for Hip Dysplasia and this is documented on the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation of Animals). We test eyes with a canine ophthalmalogist for hereditary eye disease and USUALLY send the results to CERF (Canine Eye Research Foundation). We DNA test our breeding stock for vWD disease (von Willdebrand Disease, which is a type of hemophelia that runs in many breeds. Some breeders also register the results with the OFA. The newest DNA test out for Pembrokes and a few other breeds (including the Cardigan Welsh Corgi) is for Degenerative Myelopathy (DM). This disease is late in life onset and renders the dog paralyzed in the rear. Most breeders are refusing to test for this even though it is a valid problem and a valid test. WE DO NOT WILLFULLY LEAVE LONG TAILS.

As a person looking to purchase a Pembroke, you should educate yourself about the breed, health issues and questions to ask breeders as well as what questions to expect to answer from the breeder. There are many regional corgi clubs listed online or listed on the "parent club" website (PWCCA -Pembroke Welsh Corgi Club of America). While belonging to ANY of these clubs is NOT an endorsement that the breeder is ethical, we DO sign a Code of Ethics which we are expected to abide by. These clubs are a good starting place to finding a reputable breeder.

As always, it is "buyer beware" so educate yourself, know what is acceptable and what you should expect. If a tail is so important that you can't live without one, perhaps you should look to another breed like the Cardigan. There is no substitute for that adorable "bunny butt"!

Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on August 22, 2009 at 9:11am

Thank you for your thoughts and information...one thing I do before I reply is to check out who the person is by going to their site.

Permalink Reply by Carrie Ritter on October 8, 2010 at 3:39pm

I haven't been to a puppy docking, but I was pre-vet in college and I worked with the lambs and piglets and we docked them. When they are so young, it really isn't a big deal. We used both the banded method and the "cut it with a cauterizing blade" (don't remember what the method was really called.) It was quick, bled very little and the lambs were over it in a few minutes. I doubt they remember it or are traumatized by it.

I think it is good for people to go see things like this. I found in school that a lot of practices were not as horrible or gruesome as most people imagine.

Permalink Reply by Susan and Merlin on August 4, 2009 at 8:48pm

neither my OES nor my corgi has ever missed his tail. ;)

Permalink Reply by Maddy & Keke on July 27, 2009 at 6:53pm

Just a off side question.

How do we tell if the tail have been docked?

Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on July 27, 2009 at 7:32pm

I'm not sure if a naturally docked tail (born docked) would be short or have to be docked some anyways. I have only had 1 litter and am far from an expert on this subject. I did have my pups tails docked but not the show dock but a short dock so that you can see them wag their tails...my tri has the short dock (not show) and it is so wonderful to see her tail wag so fast and with such vigor! Otherwise most are born with tails like my pic and are fairly large/long.I can tell which of mine were docked professionally as the ones that weren't have a slight imperfection (longer hair) than mine did with the vet who glues them. Hope this answers your question!

Permalink Reply by Maddy & Keke on July 28, 2009 at 3:48am

I just checked her tail and sad to confirmed that it have been docked. There is a scar at the tail's end although it was very well hidden under her fur.

To makeup for her lost tail, she will get an extra treat everyday.

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