Unfixed Dogs
I was hoping for some feedback regarding an issue that we are currently having with Mickey at the dogpark. It has gradually been getting worse so i was wondering fi this "could" be the reason and i there is a way to stop it. Mickey (who is neutered) used to be best friends with almost every dog (except dogs who use their paws to play like certain German Shepards and Boxers mostly) until recently. Now he seems pick and choose his friends and gets cranky (really cranky) with certain dogs. At first we thought it was larger puppies that were playing very puppyish but were too big for him, and rough but lately we have been noticing a trend and starting to ask the owners if they were boys or girl and the answer is always "they are boys". Then we asked if they are neutered? And the answer is always no. So he seems to have conflict with unneutered male dogs, regardless of their size. It happens as soon as these dogs come into the park and we do not know how to solve the problem. Is this common? How can we solve this problem? Has anyone else gone through this? We hate that Mickey is behaving this way because he has so much fun at the park until this happens. Thanks! :)
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on
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What exactly is he doing when you say he's "really cranky"?
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Permalink Reply by justine moeller on
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Ughh, I wish I had a video. He stares them down (which is when I know its about to happen) and he snaps. He jumps at their faces and bites making this very high pitched sound.
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That sounds like a pre-emptive strike; he feels nervous about them and pre-punishes them. What do the other dogs do, and how do you respond when he does this?
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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We only have one dog park around here. I've only been to it once (my one dog is in the never-never land for size, at around 35 pounds he's too big for the small part and kinda small for the big part). There is a rule that all dogs must be spayed or neutered, but of course there is no enforcement.
I'm sorry I don't have much input. Some dogs have a definite preference in playmates (males vs females, etc) while others are more easy-going. Jack definitely notices the difference between spayed and intact females, even if the intact ones are not in season.
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We have been lucky so far that when Mickey does this the other dogs do not do anything back normally so its not liek they are "mean" dogs but then again, neither is Mickey. However the dogs do normally keep coming back at him, over and over again so we usually have to leave the park. Mickey still makes lots of friends but it seems as we come in contact with an unneutered male he turns into a different dog. At this point (which worked very very very well at first and he eventually became friends with them, often it was his best friend for the rest of the park time) we lay him on his side until he calms down and then try and do a proper introduction with smelling, etc. The used to work wonders but lately it has not been working. It is like he cant get them out of his head. If they even walk by he gets mean and cranky and goes after them. He is the sweetest little boy and this is really bothering us. Mickey is the type of dog that gets humped alot and females even approach him in the park and try and mount and/or take care of him (lick his head and ears etc) He justs sits there and takes it all in. Sometimes he is referred to as the princess :) Haha
But the unneutered male dog thing (tonight it was two shih tzus) is getting really worrisome. Mickey always has made friends with dogs of all sizes.
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He's doing this precisely because he is insecure and feels that they are a threat to him. He's not being dominant or anything; it's because he is overly nervous that they're going to try something so he snaps first.
Rather than put him in an even lower position and reinforce the idea that these dogs are bad, you go ahead of him and greet the other dog with calm happiness. "Oh, look, it's Sam! Sam, you are the bestest dog ever, you great dog Sam!" and see what Mickey does. I would bet he will not be jumping and snapping; he'll probably look shocked and hang back, or perhaps consider approaching.
The best rule is to never punish fear. You punish a dog who is genuinely being obnoxious in a forward fashion (is trying to take over) but you convince the fearful dog that there is actually nothing to worry about.
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Ok, I want to say upfront I am NOT a dog trainer, behaviorist, or any such thing. :) Just a dog-owner making some observations based on your interpretation of events I have not seen. Please take it all with a healthy dose of your own good judgement.
How old is Mickey? Your profile says 15 months, so if that's still accurate, you have a dog who, behavior-wise, is just crossing the bridge from puppyhood to adulthood.
You mention he gets humped a lot. Some dogs don't mind this at all, some don't appreciate it but sort of feel it's their lot in life, others hate it. Not sure where Mickey falls, but if he's getting humped a lot it may be some scent he gives off (every once in a blue moon Jack finds a neutered male who he thinks is irresistable; Jack is NOT a humper most of the time, but the tiny handful of males he's humped normally have an owner who responds "Yeah, everyone does that to him, poor guy."} Or other dogs may be showing dominance. But humping can be a result of sexual interest, plain non-sexual excitement, or a dominance display. Mickey may feel he's getting dominated.
Then you're there, his owner, and you put him on his side which is also a dominance thing. If he has had a couple such experiences with intact males, he may now have made the connection that "When an intact male comes near me, I either get mounted or end up showing my belly, and I don't want that so I'm going to back him off right away."
This may not be the case at all; as I said, I'm not a trainer but just taking what you said about the behavior escalating and comparing it to your description of what happened in the time periods prior to the escalation.
Have you tried letting him sort it out himself with the other dog? My Madison can be a real snarker, especially on leash, when approached by other dogs, but I've never seen it blow up into a fight or even really come close. Well, she once got into an argument with a noisy Boston Terrier girl, but she was leashed and charged by the Boston who was loose and the Boston would not back away. Anyway, usually if Maddie snarks, either:
a) the other dog gives her some space, and then they resume playing a chase game, or
b) the other dog snarks back, at which point Maddie goes behind my legs.
In other words, they are just disagreeing and that's how they are doing it. Sometimes if you give them some space to let them work it out, they will surprise you. By intervening early in the discussion, we don't let them determine what they need to know.
Do you know anyone, even casually, with a bomb-proof intact male who you can meet at the park at a quiet hour and see if you can let the two dogs sort it out? Maybe calmly walk past each other leashed a few times, several feet apart so they can't approach each other, then make them both sit and stay and unleash them so they approach each other in a calmer frame of mind from the beginning?
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I just wanted to add that one concern I have about putting dogs on their side is you need to be absolutely sure they are exhibiting dominance aggression, and most of us pet owners are not exposed to enough aggressive dogs to tell the difference.
If a dog is being aggressive out of fear or to pre-emptively protect himself from a threat, putting him in a submissive position can make him more fearful or uncertain, and hence more aggressive.
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Thanks for the input Joanna and Beth. I am just heading to bed but plan to reply tomorrow :) Just quickly as for putting him on his side, we dont really flip him over and dominante him. We more so hold him until he has calmed down from growling and basically just to remove him from the other dog. I wish I could take a video of it.
I would be willing to let them work it out but unfortunatly it seems to have hit the point where we do have to get him out of the situation right away because we fear he could hurt the other dog (although when he snaps its usually very quickly and then he tries to back away but is often followed and harrassed by the dog who he is in conflict with) or that the other dog could snap at him. I also dont know how the owners would feel about it if we let our dog snap and bite at their dog. I do agree with both of you saying it seems fear based. I am going to try making a big POSITIVE deal about the other dog and see where it gets us. It isnt a daily thing but it is getting more common and we want to make sure Mickey is happy and not scared because he always enjoyed all his friends so much at the park.
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Lying down is a very submissive position, even if it's not done in a real forceful way. :) It took me some time to convince Jack to even do a normal "down" (belly to the ground) with other dogs in eyesight; he would stoicly pretend he did not hear me or offer other responses instead (sitting and giving me his paw being the most common). Dogs will voluntarily show their bellies in submission, either playful or serious, but that is different.
Please understand that if he meant to bite the other dog, he would have done so. That's not to say it couldn't possibly escalate, but if an adult dog means to bite, it rarely misses. Trust me, they know exactly where their teeth are.
Snapping and then backing away is a dog's way of saying clearly "Give me more space!" It's an airsnap and it's meant to connect with the air, not the dog. For whatever reason, it sounds like the other dogs are not getting the message and that is compounding the problem. Oddly enough, had he been more forceful with his first correction the other dog would have backed away (probably) and Mickey would feel safer, knowing he was capable of protecting his personal space.
Besides greeting the other dog happily, you can also praise Mickey in a calm but upbeat way when he is being nice to other dogs.
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