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Comment by vicky hyde on August 9, 2010 at 3:39pm

Miss Fiona-----Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and cindy, how about a 50's rockn' roll theme for the pups? also cindy, ar you and your son planning on davenport UKC this october. sandy and i will be there. my 2 are going to sit and collect dust but will be holding dogs for sandy. we have the IABCA shows the following weekend at puriena farms. both of mine are going to those. also, i say birth on aug 28, colors will be mostly brindles and she's going to have 5 girls, 3 boys. and they are all going to be so cute, you won't know what to do. have a good one.

Comment by Cindy on August 9, 2010 at 1:24pm

Congrats!!!! Wish we could have been there on Sunday but we had the pleasure of sending our current foster dog to his new forever home. Plus Meredith can't tolerate the heat and best to keep her at home in the a/c.

Not to rain on the parade but I thought it was only 3 pts in dog? Was there an error in the counts from Onforio? I know that happened a couple of weeks ago too.

Comment by Teresa Kannard on August 9, 2010 at 12:24pm

Congratulations to all the winners at the West Burlington, IA shows. We had 4 point majors all weekend for both sexes, Tartanwyn's Princess Fiona got a 4 point major Sunday! So excited and two corgis finished their Championship on Sat.

Comment by Cindy on August 9, 2010 at 11:46am

Shelley suggested that we do a little side wager on something-heehee. Let's see, how about a fleecy tug to the closest person?

Puppies due around the 27th or so, from our Abbey(Am/Can/Intl Ch FoggyBottm Summit Play It By Ear) and Russ(Am/Can Ch Summit FoggyBotm White Russian CGC) All colors-reds, brindles and b/w with either points expected.

SOOOO--date? # of puppies? Colors? Sex? Russ' first litter produced all girls, all b/w with both tan and brindle points. Abbey's black factored, sire had brindle points. First breeding was June 27th, 2nd the 29th.

And a current photo of Abbey's ever growing belly is on the blog. www.cindy-foggybottom.blogspot.com I also need help with a litter theme. We have no idea what to use this time around, lots of ideas but nothing sounds perfect.

I'm getting picked on-someone said 12! Eeeek! No, not that many. I'd love 6 or 7.

Comment by shelley power on August 3, 2010 at 8:35pm

yup Vicky
But I think those of us who dont have and arent in it for mega green will still see the qualities in our dogs now and in the future rewarded .. it just might take us a bit longer . And I am confident that meeting people , lots of people ( good and not so good) can be rewarding also and the friendships made from those we meet can be built and maintained over time! I am looking forward to enjoying time with my new friends and dogs in the future and even tho we might not be able to see each other often, whatever we can share over the distance makes getting together for what shows we can a great time and something to look forward to.

Comment by vicky hyde on August 3, 2010 at 3:42pm

i think this stuff goes on in all breeds. showing just isn't what it use to be. it was fun and you made plans with others, no matter what breed, to see each other at the next shows. when i was living in utah, they had their first shows i believe in may. they don't have many out there, so we had to do a little travel time. up in iddaho, they have 2- 4 day clusters. well, we all, somehow, managed to meet up at the last idaho 4 dayer as our last show get-together for the year. we didn't really even care about who was judging our breeds, we just met up. then the following year, we would do it all over again. even though i am back here in wisconsin, i have maintained a few of the friendships built while i was out there. granted, we burn up the phone lines, but we still check to see how all are doing in their showing and some with their personel life. i have made some friendships like this back here, but i wonder with some of them, if we were parted by distance, how long some would last. this thing with breeding to "the best" out there is so hokey it isn't funny. you are suppose to be breeding to IMPROVE your breed, not to see who can make top dog. and, sometimes those "top dogs" can't or don't produce worth a crap! common sense is the main thing needed for breeding. if you don't have it, don't breed. we all have faults in our dogs and no matter what or how careful we are, breeding is a crap shoot! the reason most dogs are "top dogs" is because the owners have mega-green. they can afford to fly their dogs all over and hire the top handlers in the country. sorry to say, but judges are so played by some of these people. the problem lies with the judges not knowing their standards the way they should(most have too many breeds in their criteria to be able to remember what's what for a breed). so, they go with the people they see constantly in their ring, the dogs and faces that money buys. most of us can't afford these "top names" so our just as good as their dogs get dumped. i have used handlers in the past and will in the future, but since i'm on a limited income now, i have to really pick and choose my shows as to what i can afford. this has been crap for me, but i will plow through. i can't show my dog to the best of it's ability, due to my health, so i will use a handler. right now i will be meeting my handler at the shows, because i can't afford hotel and handler boarding cost right now. but, i've done that in the past and will continue to do so in the future. and for pet ads! i have been back home now 10 years and thank god i have only seen 1-2 ads for pemmies. i don't think i have seen any ads for cardies. makes me feel good. ok, now that's off my chest, so you all have a great day. take care and happy showing

Comment by shelley power on August 3, 2010 at 2:27pm

"Right now there's a must have stud dog in cardigans. Unfortunately, what isn't being said is that those pet puppies produced have issues that should be taken into consideration over the wins of the few show puppies that are out there. Look at it this way, the more popular a dog is the more it's used at stud, the more puppies on the ground. Overall is this dog producing greater and better puppies or just more puppies?" quotable quote!! For sure Cindy , you been in my brain again???LOL Really, all you have to do is browse the "pet want ads" and find all these puppies for sale and so many are bragging about championship pedigrees... why because of the must have studs theory.. breeding paper and dog du jour mentality. yup so thats my 2 cents worth LOL
actually I agree on all counts dog du jour and show friendships, I just wish sometimes it wasnt so much this way.. I go try to make friends anyway, and as much as I would like to connect with more people showing Pems, and establish some solid friendships, they may not be as easy to come by as my fond memories of 20 some years ago, but that isnt going to stop me from going out there and pursuing the challenges I set for myself in and for this breed..And as much as I have been fortunate thus far in the social part of the game, I am sure I will always run into those individuals that will just not be friendly, and so who need 'em? I have already begun some promising friendships that I think will be built on and rewarding in the future, so guess I'll have to get used to having a bit of a thick skin in dealing with the rest.. If enough of us get out there and troupe together and have fun, maybe we can make a difference out there?

Comment by Cindy on August 3, 2010 at 11:38am

I think it all depends on the person not just the breed. We have a great group of cardigan people in my area. We all get together a shows and set up grooming, eat and laugh together. I've taken to grooming my dogs and then going over and helping with other dogs if I have time. We do breed together at times and all are very honest about what we like and don't like in dogs-ours and others. Granted there are a few people that I don't like to be around(Shelley knows who I mean) but partly because they choose to act the way they did at one point and continue to act that way, making showing no fun at all when around them.

My best friend in showing started out in Am Staffs and Irish Setters, she traveled with a cardigan person a lot and ended up with a couple of nice cardigans along the way. She's got frenchies now and we have a blast with her. My handler/good friend, shows and raises toys-poms, griffs and such. He's a great person to ask for opinions on my dogs as he also has a background in pems and GSD's.

On the breeding du jour--it happens in all the breeds. Right now there's a must have stud dog in cardigans. Unfortunately, what isn't being said is that those pet puppies produced have issues that should be taken into consideration over the wins of the few show puppies that are out there. Look at it this way, the more popular a dog is the more it's used at stud, the more puppies on the ground. Overall is this dog producing greater and better puppies or just more puppies? What's the average of the # of those that go on to championships vs those going to pet homes and being altered. Now compare that to a seldom used dog that has a higher rate of finished champions/performance dogs vs the pet/companions.

You'll be shocked at what you see-for the most part the dog du jour is producing on average no better a pup then the seldom used dog. It's just the fact that the few that are doing well, have a few big wins right along side the sire or dam that is still out showing and having big wins.

Example--my Eddie is the only intact offspring of a BIS cardigan that in the last 2-3 years has been in the top ten and getting group placements and wins all over. Eddie is also only one of two puppies this dog has produced. Yet one of the top dogs in the country is being bred to every bitch out there and there are some good dogs, a few great dogs and a lot of companion pups with some serious faults. Does that make that dog more worthwhile for the long term sustainablity of the breed vs the one seldom used?

Look back at those dogs that are found in everyone's pedigree--again, do you know how many litters he produced, how many puppies on the ground and of those puppies that went on to show/breeding careers, how many are really influental? For the most part you will find that a sire/dam that produced a lot, only a select few offspring really carried their traits forward and made an impact.

Just a some food for thought,
C

Comment by shelley power on August 2, 2010 at 10:26pm

So Steph. like you I am starting at the beginning you might say and out on a limb, and building on what I have , and what I want to see in MY pembrokes,all the choices I make from here will depend on study, study and more study and the show ring is a great arena to learn a lot of things about what is good. better, and best in the breed ( show ring, trials, agility, etc etc) Get out there , you cant help but learn just in the experience!!!!!

Comment by shelley power on August 2, 2010 at 10:17pm

I think this may be sadly true... but I have to say its too bad that we all cant compete together instead of sorta against each other... but I guess thats the nature of competition... brings out the best and worst in some of us I suppose.... A wise friend recently told me when I commented on how "nice" most people I met , stationed on either side of me in grooming space and others I met ( largely other breeds) were in Duluth, she said.."thats because they werent corgi (Pem) people!" and sadly that is probably truer than not.... and it seems to me in observation, that this is more true with Pems than I have seen in other breeds... I see for example large groups of "golden" people preparing and competing together, and still seem to be friends and routing each other on despite who wins that day.... I guess its individuals, not groups to be fair, and but if you have thin skin , you wont find showing Pems to be much fun:(( I guess it depends on area as well, but I think maybe the whole game has gotten to "personal" I mean to me as compared to years ago it seems that there are more people/breeders out there for themselves instead of the betterment of the breed.. and maybe this is the exception but Ill tell you run into a crew like that at a show in any breed and it can leave a sour taste in your mouth.. I think judging needs to be more uniform as well if thats possible so that people coming into the sport can look at past shows and get an idea what a winning corgi looks like.. well as it is... it runs the gambit...... you can look at winners in a weekend and see dogs from one end of the scale to the other the look for a beginner will seem totally different, and in many cases there are vast differences of opinions in judges regarding what a winning corgi is...
I am showing mine becasue I thnk it will be fun to see him win points to get a championship one day, I am sure there are many better or as good dogs out there , but I think he deserves to be judged on his "corgi-ness" regardless of how years of breeding has little by little changed the pems we see in the ring today. No dog is perfect, but there is certainly room in the standard to improve overall, and I think more people shpuld get thicker skins and show their dogs if they feel they represent the breed well. And I say cautiously that more people should breed( study) to better the generation that comes before, not breed to a current "fad" or what is popular or "winning" currently ..I see so many breedings by" the dog du jour" a popular dog wins a lot and suddenly its the most popular bitch or sire for a while.. I guess from that blast of breeding due to popularity or streak of wins your bound to get some nice progeny.. but if you study the breed and the genetics and sturcture , you can certainly breed and show champion dogsbased on choices made for structure temperament and health , and it used to be that you bred said dog ( or any stock) and then brought it to be judged against a standard , and and to encourage yet more good breeding choices to produce better in each generation....I see see things in this dog that I feel are inherent to the origin og the breed that seem to me to be slowly disappearing largely due to "popularity " of of some superficial traits. I see this in a lot of breeds, so much breeding based on the showring that that the dog of today can hardly be recognized for what the dog was bred for.. There is however recently more and more interest in multiple titling dogs, not only in conformation but in performance and , therapy utility etc....I think you will see slowly a change resulting as more and more of the performance /function utility breeders start doing more conformation showing...( or you will see a change in breeding patterns as the rec=verse happens and "showring" people begin to seriously think about what their breed was originally bred to do and begin to compete in these kinds of events.. And I do see multi titled dogs in lots of breeds, just would like to see MORE!!! I think a dog should be able to do what he was bred for as well as win in the conformation ring in order to be a champion instead of in a lot of cases its either /or
different worlds showring and / agility/ etc
I am happy to see more and more breeders making this comittment, so they are out there!

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