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Comment by shelley power on July 15, 2010 at 4:40pm

I agree with fluffs.... its a naturally occurring thing , and knowingly of course we wouldnt knowingly , but it happens. I agree, again decision to breed for more important traits etc. Guess it might help to know if you have a carrier? but... no guarantee a mating wont produce a fluff... unless dealing with a known fluff.. And I know there is more to this topic too LOL

Comment by vicky hyde on July 15, 2010 at 4:18pm

hello wind dial. as i understand it, OFA is probably going to get the patent on the DM test. what's going to happen to price when that happens? for some reason, i really don't trust OFA. they have everyone petrfied about breeding now that we will lose great dogs from the breeding pool. i had joker DM'd for my own curiosity. probably won't do it with future dogs. breeding has always been a crap-shot. and someone will always come along with something new to test for, so where as breeders, do you cross the line and say, enough!!!! i don't think they should be allowed to freak people out like this with oput hard, solid proof. but, it's a great way for them to make money, so they are going to keep doing it. next thing you know, your dog is going to die because his left ear isn't quite where it belongs. i know there are some serious problems that should be checked and tested for, but there should also be more info available before scaring everyone.

Comment by Wind Dial on July 15, 2010 at 4:17pm

Vicky, thats what I mean, people get really mad about it sometimes to the point of loosing friends. I do what I do but don't condemn anyone for not doing likewise. Even if they may condemn me. Can't please everyone.

Comment by vicky hyde on July 15, 2010 at 4:01pm

cindy, i so agree with you on the DM thing. it basically is known to affect old dogs ( there are exceptions to this rule). i don't know if they are still offering it, but one of the 2 places for this test, offers it for free for dogs 10yrs and older. i feel that if it was such a major, serious, disease, why offer free for the over 10 gang. i feel that now people will be believing that their arthuritic dogs have DM. people talk about how horrible it is to see their dogs gragging their rears because of DM and how they have to carry this dog out to potty and etc. maybe i'm cold hearted, but i don't believe in letting an animal suffer, and to me, this is suffering. humanely put this animal to sleep. remember all the great times. if your like me, right now ther are 2 little purple velvet bags with my old corgis ashes and my old cat's ashes in them, waiting to go with me when i go. when they started falling apart, i had them gently put to rest. yes it's hard, but i think it would be harder to watch them suffer. i also believe there will be some fantastic dogs pulled out of the gene pool because of this. i can think of some pictures of a DM clear male that i saw. he is below pet quality. this is one that should have been neutered, but today he is being bred because he is DM clear. as we all know, when this DM phase ends, the OFA or someone else will come up with something else. and yes, i did DM joker and i know the results. jack was not DM'd before breeding because none of us had ever heard of it. it really didn't surface until after the boys were born. i lost a friend over this DM thing because she got all fanatic over the fact i used jack (mind you, he's 10yrs and has only been used once) and i never could get it thru her brain that no one really knew about this test. so, i am one that is not going to lose sleep over this. i am going to continue on showing joker and maybe, down the road, i will use him for stud. i can't predict the future. ok, went on long enough. you all take care.

Comment by Wind Dial on July 15, 2010 at 3:57pm

I might try to take pictures of her but she is trying to blow coat right now and is molting. I have a finished Pembroke who is NOT a carrier but he also has buckets of coat. He looks better with his coat blown than he does in coat because it's soooooooooooo thick and makes him look short and fat. He needs stripped down out of coat to look good. I sort of like that he is so heavily coated without the fluff, opens up my options for maintaining coat without loosing the umph. No bodifier for him.

Comment by Cindy on July 15, 2010 at 3:57pm

This boy has tons of coat, not a fluff, far from it, but buckets of coat. Which btw is the boy we might use on the girl I just posted the photo of-partially because of the coat he and his entire litter had-gorgeous coats on this all.

Comment by Cindy on July 15, 2010 at 3:56pm

Heehee, yeah the tail will get yah everytime. Just wait till they go all naked and rat tailed, then you'll be praying to have it all back.

I'll try to get some photos of the kids tonight and post so you'll have some ideas of what I'm talking about.

This is the girl that needs coat.

Comment by Cindy on July 15, 2010 at 3:52pm

Cardigan coats vary, alot. I have a couple girls with very tight coats. Actually we had one girl place at the national a year ago and he judge loved her but wanted a little more coat. Where as this girl's grandfather is famous for buckets of coat-not a fluff, but a carrier and Fred has a correct length, very hard texture but tons of it. He sleeps on his back and at the ripe old age of 9, has a part down his back - heehee.

The key for cardigans is to look for fringe on the ears, excessive softness behind the ears, under the armpits. Hairy pads is another good one.

A plush, non fluff coat can easily be tamed for the show ring. As long as it's harsh, if you wash then dry with a sleeze type grooming coat, that will make it look sleeker.

Comment by Wind Dial on July 15, 2010 at 3:49pm

On that Cardi female, by Pem standards she would not be a fluff, so she probably isn't. It's probably me just not being used to that foxy looking fuzz on the tail that makes me think poof ball.

Comment by Wind Dial on July 15, 2010 at 3:46pm

Not to go completely off topic but I think this is one of the most civil breeding discussions with differing opinions on an internet forum. I don't like to see them get out of hand but so many times they do. I like to talk about this stuff but some people just can't.

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