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Comment by Luke & Jess on March 28, 2009 at 8:28am

Thanks everyone for your advice, Milo can be a little exasperating at times, as I know every puppy can be. Bonny, thanks for the novella! I appreciate the tips in there, and will try them!

Thanks for everyone's speedy advice! I love this website!

Comment by Ein Danger on March 27, 2009 at 3:52pm

i agree with go go rainbow on of course giving them a pat when they've submitted to reward them for submitting. as for bonny's advice against pinning, i personally wasn't talking about pinning. i was sharing my own experiences with ein and how if he does get a little too rough i assertively (not roughly but with a gentle hand) place my hand above his shoulder blades and apply a little pressure. as soon as i do this, ein instantly lays all the way down and rolls over on his side. i'm not sure if your pup will do this but ein does. he really reads energy well that's why he responds to the cesar millan stuff :)

Comment by GoGoRainbow on March 27, 2009 at 3:15pm

Maybe he needs to see her not always calm and non-aggressive ;) Pooka knows I can be a mean momma and knows when to not mess with me. Probably comes from being an eldest sister with a mom-complex, so I'm good at assertive yelling and controlling a situation =P

umm... you all talk about correcting the dog and then maybe leaving while its submissive... just my input, don't know if it will help Jess' situation (haven't had to deal with Pooka aggression) but I've always practiced the method that, once you correct them and they submit, you immediately become happy and tell them how good they are. Or at least give'm a good pet "Good dog" so they know they're no longer "in the doghouse". I think it builds respect and trust.

Comment by Bonny on March 27, 2009 at 12:11pm

P.S. Sorry for writing a book!

Comment by Bonny on March 27, 2009 at 12:10pm

Our Elvis was a fairly dominant puppy, too. So I can empathize with your challenge! Even today, if you correct him, he'll still turn give a "false bite", as if to return your challenge. In these cases I follow up with another correction to keep him from getting the last word in the manner.

In your case, you still have a very young puppy, so it should be easier to teach and correct him than an older, stronger dog. I would suggest having Jess pay closer attention to how she's interacting with him and how she finishes each activity with him. He should be calm submissive, and she should leave the exercise first.

As far as "pinning" or alpha rolling goes, in order for this to work in it's intended way, you need to remember that simply forcing the dog on it's back will not necessarily achieve submission. That's why this is a controversial practice. In fact, if you are using your body or weight to hold the dog down while he struggles, you have not succeeded. It's just become a practice of bullying that will reduce the amount of trust your dog has for you. Instead, you should only need one hand with hard fingers at the very base of the head and under the jaw. Your timing needs to be really good, and you need to bring enough intensity to match the level your dog is bringing, and have zero emotion. The dog may struggle for a few seconds the first couple of times you do this, but if you are doing it correctly, they will soon relax and submit. Then you turn the exercise into a calming massage, and leave the dog quietly.

I find that people who struggle with dominance issues have trouble with a couple of things. First, when they give a correction, they are too soft about it. The dog doesn't take them seriously because they view this as weakness, and continue to exhibit the behavior. When you give a correction, you want clearly send the message that you don't allow the particular behavior. The dog's reaction should be one of submission--ears back, head down, avoidance, or simply backing away. Don't worry about hurting his feelings, he won't take it personally, as long as your timing is good (he'll understand why he got the correction).

The second thing is related. If the first attempt at correction doesn't work, the person either gives up or give the same correction again that was ineffective in the first place. Especially with behaviors that are established, the person is going to need to have some persistence. This part is really challenging because we often get frustrated, fearful, or angry if things aren't working out, but it's so important persist without these feelings. Ask yourselves if there are ways you could do this better while working with Milo.

The "positive" method of stopping biting is to yelp, and turn away and ignore the dog for a minute or so, especially if this happens during play.

You could also try "biting" back, Cesar-style, but you would need to be quick and firm about it, and be intense enough.

And since you seem to have better luck in correcting him, you can step in and correct if he's being too rough with Jess, which may be helpful at first for her to improve her approach. You're basically telling him to have more respect for her, and there's nothing wrong with that. But if Jess wants to work with him, she will need to learn to effectively take charge at some point. The best way to have submissive dogs is to practice asking them to do things all the time. Asking them to wait at doors, wait for food, earn their rewards. If she is teaching him things, like sit, down, or whatever, she should ONLY ONLY give a reward when he does these things respectfully. No snatching treats away. She could even start by teaching him to take treats quietly, such an easy exercise! Or what about teaching "watch me"? This is another great exercise for practicing submission. Each time she gets him in a follower state of mind, her leadership will be reinforced. But no place is more important for this than the walk. If he's bossy on the walk, she'll have a hard time making progress.

Good luck, and keep it fun as much as possible. You guys can do it!

Comment by Ein Danger on March 27, 2009 at 10:32am

sounds like a job for cesar millan. lol. well, its definitely dominance issues. i know when i'm roughhousing with ein and he gets a little too crazy and bites too hard. usually my outburst of "oww!" will make him back off and lay low to the floor as if he's sorry for what he did. but sometimes he's "in the zone" and kinda forgets so i totally lay him down on his side and make him calm down before play can commence. he always understands this and brings his playing back down to a normal level :) perhaps more training on the level of submission is in order. along with never allowing your dog to walk ahead of you but at your side, you walking out of the door before they do and you walking into your home before they do. sounds like this pup wants to run the show. totally normal :)