Need some real advice on bladder stones.
So we've spent nearly 700 dollars on the vet so far and we're both near the end of our ropes in terms of knowing what we're supposed to do with our puppy. Apollo just isn't getting any better. We've had to completely give up on potty training and drop out out of puppy classes all together now because of this problem. We took him in for another vet visit today and now the vet thinks instead of a simple bladder infection he has urinary calculi but apparently now instead of the crystals being formed by calcium they are being caused by an overabundance of magnesium ammonium phosphate. The vet indicated she thought the recent change in his urinary frequency was brought on by his diet.(The first month he was doing INCREDIBLY well on potty training and was able to be crated for like 4-5 hours before having an accident so this is a recent behavior change) We've been feeding him Canidae all life stages grain free, which as far as I've heard from other people is a good choice for this breed. However the vet wants us to try switching him to a urinary problem based dog-food but she couldn't even offer a suggestion as to what we'd be looking for... Apparently she's going to call Canidae and see what they suggest tomorrow for us and give us a call afterwards. She suggested that he may need to go on a specialized diet for the rest of his life if that's what they suggest. The vet also explained to us that while he definitely has crystals in his urine she was unsure as to whether or not they have formed stones yet. (No idea why they didn't do an x-ray) So essentially all she did was send us home with more amoxicillin to rule out any more bacterial infections and then told us to try putting vinegar into the puppy's water bowl until she finds out about this specialized diet.We've pretty much tried everything we can think of though, over the last 3 weeks, we've given him as much water as he his heart desires, we've taken him outside like once an hour and he still can't hold himself at all. The poor thing has had probably 50 baths in the last 24 hours just because he pees all over himself. Worse his behavior is starting to influence our other dog as she's seeing him get away with peeing all over the floor.
So I'm curious to know if anyone else has had this problem with their dog and could offer some real advice :) I guess we have a few basic questions:
What food should we be feeding him?
Our friends who have dogs who have suffered this problem and done the special diet thing in the past have all still went on to require the removal surgery, will switching the food even work/help?
Would it be possible to switch to just regular grain based Canidae before switching him to some medication diet?
And I suppose the most important question is, will he ever be crate/potty trainable? (We live in an apartment and both work so we absolutely cannot take him outside every hour on the hour for the rest of his life)
Lastly, should we try contacting the breeder? He's only about 13 weeks old and has a 1 year health guarantee but realistically we don't want another puppy or our money back, we just want what every pet owner wants, a happy, healthy, trainable dog.
So I'm curious to know if anyone else has had this problem with their dog and could offer some real advice :) I guess we have a few basic questions:
What food should we be feeding him?
Our friends who have dogs who have suffered this problem and done the special diet thing in the past have all still went on to require the removal surgery, will switching the food even work/help?
Would it be possible to switch to just regular grain based Canidae before switching him to some medication diet?
And I suppose the most important question is, will he ever be crate/potty trainable? (We live in an apartment and both work so we absolutely cannot take him outside every hour on the hour for the rest of his life)
Lastly, should we try contacting the breeder? He's only about 13 weeks old and has a 1 year health guarantee but realistically we don't want another puppy or our money back, we just want what every pet owner wants, a happy, healthy, trainable dog.
Comment
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Comment by Christine on September 22, 2010 at 6:21am
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@Joanna,
They really haven't tested for much of anything beyond the standard fecal matter for worms. He's had zero blood tests so far. So I don't think they've considered diabetes insipidus. He does drink excessively though. He'll drink an entire bowls worth and then still try to drink the rain water outside 10 seconds later. I'll try to look into this possibility though
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Comment by Joanna Kimball on September 22, 2010 at 5:16am
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What tests has he had? I most certainly would not put a puppy on a urinary diet without KNOWING that he needed it! You may need to escalate to a vet university at this point if your vet is genuinely stumped.
Is he drinking obsessively as well? Have they looked at diabetes insipidus? How are his kidney levels when his blood is tested?
The peeing on himself is, fortunately, easily solved. Just put him in a baby diaper and take him out at regular intervals. He does not need to be bathed a million times a day if all he needs is some absorbency. The root cause is what I'm more worried about.
Don't change his diet until you know what's actually wrong with him.
And heavens yes, contact the breeder. I would have wanted to know the very first day! You don't contact a breeder only when you're going to start demanding replacements; you contact them immediately because they (should) know more about corgis than anyone else in the world including your vet. If you don't have that confidence in your breeder, she should still know because it's a health problem in one of her puppies. Even if it's something that's not heritable breeders should ALWAYS want to know, and should bend over backwards trying to help you solve it.
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Comment by Julia on September 22, 2010 at 2:31am
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Now I've gone back and reread your post. Yes, you can potty train her when her bladder issues are fixed. And I believe they can. My Lilli is better. Call your breeder just for advice and to let her know what's going on. Breeders, good ones, know a lot about their dogs, and want to help.
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OMG, where do I start? There's lots you can do. But it's after 1 AM here, and I don't think I can spell it out plainly right now. Maybe I can give an overview at least of what happened with Lilliput.
Crystals in urine. Repeated infections. Prescription dog food FROM THE VET. Why doesn't your vet have prescription food? Tried to wean off onto a few high quality foods with the return of crystals :) So we returned to Candid prescription food. This is not meant to be a forever food, as it is not nutritionally complete. Basically corn and sawdust, I think (I exaggerate). Long talk with knowledgable vet. Detailed diet given. After diet used, urine tested, PH good, crystals gone.
Your vet really ought to have a better grasp of special needs foods, if only to be able to prescribe prescription foods. Your vet, says the overtired me who should probably not be quoted, seems to be out of his depth.
As I said, I am very sleepy, but check out my thread, "Time to Get Serious About Her Diet." It may not be appropriate, but maybe it will. I will reread this in the daytime after a good nights sleep and consider if my situation is really relevant to yours. But I do think your vet should know a bit more.
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Comment by Jane Christensen on September 22, 2010 at 2:25am
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Oh...I am so sorry to hear this. I don't have any sound advice but I would certainly contact the breeder, if I'm not mistaken isn't the breeders husband a vet also???? See what they say. I had a cat that had some urinary issues and he had to have special food but it did work but I would not suggest giving Artemis the same food.
Good luck and keep me posted!!!!!!!
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