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Comment by Autumn and Jonathan on April 27, 2014 at 9:06am

It's totally alright Beth. I probably should have mentioned that in my post, but it totally slipped my mind at the time. Yeah, when I'd volunteer to help work with some dogs at shelters and rescues, some of them had such bad anxiety or were so paranoid that it was understandable why they were having such a hard time finding homes and fosters for them. Yeah that seems to be the number one thing I hear a lot with dog aggressive dogs. You're definitely right though Beth, there are levels and I know first hand when not to take a "red zone" dog. The last placed I volunteered at, I was the only one with experience with how to handle aggressive dogs and someone made a really stupid choice and chose to walk another dog in front of a new dog they had brought in. So the dog was going ballistic and throwing himself at the kennel and just my luck I had gotten stuck with two people who never listen to what anyone else says and they decided to just go right into the kennel (most stupidest choice someone could have made). So the dog decided if I can't get to the dog then I'm going to go after the humans. The first person in had gotten from their elbow down to their hand shredded and the other person was just trying to get away. So I had to make the call get all staff on site to help me out. I had to be the distraction while they got them out of there. So I climb the cage in the neighboring kennel dropped in and did the tango with the dog while the other staff members got the injured ones out. I paid the price for their stupidity though. I got my face bit up and my left shoulder was shredded into. I spent about two-three days in the hospital because they chose not to listen to anyone's orders. After that incident, I volunteered to rehabilitate him the best I could. Four-five months after that incident he made huge improvements. I placed him in a foster with a good friend of mine and I think the last time I checked in with her she decided to adopt him. Was it quite an experience, yes and I gain some good knowledge from it. Would I ever do it again, nope, absolutely not. I paid my dues with the worse case I ever had to face and I don't want to ever have to go through something like that again. I sorry to hear about what happened with your brother and his dog. People just need to learn that when you take a dog like that into other dog invest areas that you need to have them muzzled. And I know a lot of people protest that, but it's the only way to keep you, your dog, and other people with their dogs safe. If you want to keep a "red zone" dog, you need to learn how to handle it and keep others safe. And that's why I tell people a lot, learn to recognize the signs of aggression. If there's no muzzle, you need to know those signs to keep you and your dog safe.

Comment by Beth on April 27, 2014 at 12:04am

I apologize.  I read your posts and comments and got the wrong idea.   I agree that anxiety is a different issue.  Hopefully you and your husband can come to understand each other better through this.  Anxious dogs can be harder to place than happy-go-lucky ones, but not impossible so perhaps you can find some solution that works for everyone.

As far as dog-aggressive dogs, I think there are levels.... a dog that is likely to fight if forced to interact with dogs that it does not want to, and basically has halfway decent dog communication skills, can be safely managed by an experienced handler.  A dog that is so dog-aggressive that it waits for chances to attack strange dogs on sight, even if they are a block away, is another matter... I've had run-ins with the latter type more than once when they happened to get loose and it's not fun being on the receiving end.  I know it's hard to love a dog that is good with people but has this issue.   But when your dogs are the ones being charged, it's hard not to wonder why people choose to keep them.  :-(       My brother's JRT ended up at the vet fighting for his life when someone's German Shepherd got loose;  someone opened a garage at an inopportune time and the dog saw his chance.  Luckily my brother's dog lived, but his injuries were severe and all he was doing was walking up the street on a leash.

Comment by Autumn and Jonathan on April 26, 2014 at 11:25pm

Beth, the dog isn't a pit bull. I gave up on trying to help my husband understand that breed a long time ago and if we did get a pit bull, I have connections with some really good rescues who have taken pits in and made them do a complete 360 from when they had first gotten them. I wouldn't go to a rescue that's just starting out or take on a pitty without proper resources. Yes it's true, I have experience with working with pit bulls and "red zone" dogs, but Dusty is a black lab border collie mix and he was going to be an exception. Dusty has really bad anxiety problems that can make him clingy and paranoid if left alone for too long. Since I work from home, he would best be placed in a home that someone is able to be with him most of the time and know how to properly work through his issues. If the problems were a lot worse than just his anxiety then I wouldn't be so persistent, but since he actually stands a good chance of getting over his paranoia and anxiety I'm determined to help him. Not many people want dogs that have issues like anxiety or cat aggression or dog aggression, but some dogs do fit good in certain family situations. Since I've been exposed on how to handle certain behavioral traits in dogs and I work from home, Dusty would be a perfect fit into my family. Plus he's a more easier dog to handle. So I figured my husband would have been a little more okay with this and why I was shock the way he reacted. Even after I explained the process of introducing a new dog into a new environment and doing a follow up process. Safety is always my main focus, for my husband and my furbabies. If I thought there was an inch of a slightest threat in this dog or what people who are experience call "red zone" dogs, I wouldn't have even brought it up for discussion with my husband. I certainly wouldn't jeopardize my marriage over a "red zone" dog either. I know how to pick my battles and this is certainly one I can handle. There's not much I have to worry about with Dusty. 

Jane- I understand what you mean, but any dog aggressive dog can co-exist in an environment without having the option of putting it to sleep. You separate the dog from all the other dogs and make sure the dog aggressive dog is on a complete different schedule than your other dogs. Example: when your dogs are outside playing, feed him/her or take him/her for a walk or while him/her is out side playing, have your dogs have roam of the house or feed them. So long as they avoid each other, you won't have to worry about a dog fight breaking out or anyone getting hurt. I've only ever seen it once happen where a dog aggressive dog made contact with Dodger and to this day they're buddies. He doesn't like any other dogs except Dodger and he's also a corgi. So, there's always that slight miracle that can happen.

Comment by Linda on April 26, 2014 at 11:03pm

I agree with Jane...Beth does have some very valid points.  I know I could not take a bully breed that had issues, I can train a dog for obedience and therapy work but I do not have what it takes to work with a dog that may have aggression issues.  My first rescue hated kids but I could handle that because I no longer had any small kids around and knew that I could control his exposure to them.  The only dog aggression he had was strictly towards rotties...again another issue I could control..well 99% of the time.  The one time my neighbor's rottie decided to join us all in my yard while Arnie was also out the only one who got hurt was me and that was breaking my finger on the rottie's head.  Damn, their heads are hard! 

As much as it hurts give it up on this one...you have done what you could, that's all anyone can do.  But as I and others said a good long discussion with your husband about the future of your desire to do rescue work is needed.

Comment by Linda on April 26, 2014 at 10:54pm

Jane....I learned the forgiveness vs permission from my husband!  Not for things at home but from his work where he built a basically on-paper position into a vital safety program at his plant that they now use within the whole company.  They gave him an inch and he ran with it.  7 years later he is now consulting with a quarry in CA where one of his former bosses is now working.

Comment by Jane Christensen on April 26, 2014 at 9:34pm

You have to also make sure your own dog is safe:)

Comment by Jane Christensen on April 26, 2014 at 9:32pm

Beth does have some very valid points! Unfortunatly...you may not know all the behavior issues and if you were to get this dog...it might not be a good situation...I remember Tucker the BIG corgi that I actually had to have put to sleep due to such dog aggression...I couldn't trust him to adopt him out...he couldn't stay here due to I was afraid he would kill one of my own dogs. I also know how horrible the head woman at our humane society felt when she had to have a foster of hers put to sleep as the dog was starting to show aggression toward people...so sad!

Comment by Beth on April 26, 2014 at 9:14pm

Ok, this may not be a popular position, but taking on a powerful breed like a pit bull that has "baggage" is a huge deal and a major lifestyle changer.   I certainly would not call your husband "selfish" for not wanting to take this on, any more than I would call a couple "selfish" for not wanting to adopt a child with behavioral problems.  This is something that would change your life for the lifetime of the dog.  I don't know exactly what baggage this dog has, but having known people who ended up with "failed fosters" that could not be placed due to behavioral issues, I know how much it changes what they can do with their less-baggagey dogs.  

I have personally pulled three cats off the street and adopted a fourth from rescue.  I would never knowingly take on a dog with issues though because we love doing things with our dogs.  We like taking them hiking and swimming off-leash.  We like going through the busy park and stopping to say "hi" to all our human and dog friends.  We love when little kids run up and ask to pet the dogs and we know it's safe even if they squeal and jump and are a little rough or still not physically coordinated.   I love approaching people who like dogs but are afraid, and when they look conflicted saying "Oh, these were therapy dogs before they retired" and watching the people relax and feel safe petting the dogs.  I love taking them to a big field with a frisbee and letting them run.

I believe in rescue, but I would never want a dog that needed a ton of work to be ok.  And I would never try to force my spouse to take on a project he did not want.  I only want purebred dogs of known backgrounds from good breeders not because I like to show them off but because I want the temperament that comes with that background.  

Your marriage is important and your husband will resent you if you try to guilt him into doing something that he is not into doing.  

I know you say he has to have things his way but a good marriage involves BOTH parties looking at things from the other's perspective.   Your profile says your husband is in the Air Force which probably means you may have to move at times.   There are lots of places that don't allow certain breeds and many others that charges much higher insurance for certain breeds.  Regardless of how he feels about your dream, there are very practical reasons for him to not want to take on this particular dog.  

Unfortunately there are way too many pit and pit-mixes out there because of overproduction by dog fighters, drug dealers, and people who want the tough-looking dog that is currently in fashion.  Please don't hurt your marriage over this one.  

Comment by Jane Christensen on April 26, 2014 at 8:36pm

Haha Linda...good thing we don't live close to each other as I'm afraid we could get into all kinds of trouble:)

With my 4 puppy mill rescues I had told my hubby 1-2 and came home with 4...oops! I would do it all over again though!

Comment by Autumn and Jonathan on April 26, 2014 at 8:25pm

I think you're both right. I'm working on putting a list together as we speak of weighing the pros and cons of this. I'm hoping that the next when he and I talk he'll be able to understand, but if not then rescuing might just be a solo mission for just me. It would hurt if that had to happen, but I know it would be doing a lot of animals a lot of good. I just hope he will understand. He's the type of person that if it's not his way, he doesn't understand it at all and it takes forever to sink in.

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