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Permalink Reply by Corgi Mom on November 5, 2007 at 5:10pm

Part of Nick's trouble could be that he was abused (from the sounds of it) and that he's now in his 3rd home in a relatively short life. Our Dundee is a rescue that was surrendered from a puppymill situation. We've had him for 11 months now and it's taken this long to where he doesn't get overly anxious when we leave. What has helped is socialization, lots of love, tons of patients and understanding.

We are members of Paws for Patients here in Mobile, AL where we visit patients in assisted living homes. While Dundee may never be able to do therapy dog work we bring him to the weekly meetings and it has helped tremendously. When we first started to bring Dundee to the weekly meetings he wouldn't move from underneath the chair I would sit on. No one could get near him and I had to use a slip leash to be able to take him outside to do his business.

Nearly a year later we can rub his hears, put a regular leash on his collar, etc. It took about 4 - 6 months to get to that point. If your future father-in-law will start/or has started to spend lots of time with Nick now it might help with his anxious/submissive peeing. Good luck and let me know.

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Permalink Reply by Cindi on November 5, 2007 at 5:58pm

I see so many dogs each week with fear or excited urinating. (And I get marked by a dog at least twice a week. That's the down side of the job!) I get them in classes, too. You may find that this little guy is in his third home because he urinates. It's not uncommon. People create a problem then when they don't know what to do, they pass it along to someone else.

If it's just basic excited urinating, it will mostly go away as the dog matures and can "hold their water." Fear urination? That's a different animal altogether. Being gentle in word and action is a must. You may find that certain things trigger the behavior, such as reaching over his head. Try approaching him on his level. Squat on the floor and reach out to him from underneath rather than over the head. Also, find some safe dogs and safe people to socialize him with. Just as CorgiMom has talked about Dundee, find a place where you can bring him and he can feel safe.

Second, no matter what, do not scold him...ever. Any scolding voice will cause him to urinate. That will reinforce the behavior and it's not what we want to do. Chances are good that, while he was potty training, he had accidents and was hit or yelled at. That's the most common abuse I run across and it will definitely keep them submissive/fear urinating.

So, when he has accidents, don't say anything just clean it up. Give him a good place to socialize and be sure that everyone understands he's a fear pee-er and to approach him gently. If he has an accident when approached, don't coddle him or scold, just clean it up. Sounds like this guy needs some self-confidence. Little by little, you can bring that to him. He will feel your self-confidence and your confidence in him and respond to it by gaining control of his fear.

Be patient. This is a long-term goal, not something that will right itself overnight. Feel free to email me if I can help.

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Permalink Reply by Nicole on November 6, 2007 at 5:25pm

I never made the connection before, but now that you mention it, he does seem to be more comforable if you approach him on his level. Any time that I went in the house and sat on the floor, he'd run and sit in my lap to be petted.

I admit, that I tend to get aggrevated too easily most of the time (Greg can vouch for that), so I will really have to be more careful to watch it and make sure that I don't scold him when I see him this weekend, when I go back to Baton Rouge and again when he comes to visit for Christmas.

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Permalink Reply by Carolyn Rosner on November 6, 2007 at 10:45am

Did you have Nick checked for any bladder infection etc? Lola too was an abused puppymill dog then a street urchin. She would have accidents too and react as if she was going to be hit or scolded. We just cleaned the mess up then let her outside and praised her when she pottied outdoors. She has gotten much better and rarely has an accident now. She has bladder problems from havind had several litters of puppies. We put a supplement called Biotic Ph twice a day in her food and it is supposed to help with the condition. Just give Nick lots of love and affection and in time he should get better.

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Permalink Reply by Greg Zaffuto on November 6, 2007 at 5:15pm

Hi folks.... I just joined the site. I had come here often to read forum posts before for tips and advice, but I guess I felt compelled to join because Nicole sent in the post about me and my corgi Nick. Yes, I had him checked at the vet for bladder infection and such. Also, I have not ever used a "scolding voice" with him when he made a mistake. Everything that Nicole said in her post is correct, but since Nick and I are alone at home most of the time, I don't have the submissive pee problem with him most of the time. He is very submissive and doesn't easily trust new people or situations, but seems to mostly "act out" when he is out of his home environment or has someone (person or canine) come into his territory. He is definitely a one-person dog and shadows me very closely when I am at home.

Negative behaviors I have noticed besides the submissive peeing: scared of traffic and large vehicles; suspicious of new objects that he hasn't seen before; runs around house barking during thunderstorms, otherwise normally not a barker; he views going into a kennel as a punishment and will try to avoid it ( I have tried giving him treats inside the door, etc. to no avail); marks territory outside and never quite empties his bladder; has occasionally marked places in the house only when other dogs are present that he is competing with for attention; he gets along better with male dogs but is very aggressive with females; is very protective and challenging even to some family members when they enter the house invited when I am present but doesn't bite or snap... not so much when he is in the house by himself and I am not there; when staying at relative's house, it takes him a day or so to become comfortable enough to allow them close enough to pet him; doesn't like large or tall men reaching down for him to pet him or pick him up ( I and my son were the only exceptions to this behavior, even when I first got him, though he did immediately go submissive and present his stomach and lay down by my foot);

Positive behaviors: Not destructive in the house; doesn't chew or tear up anything that hasn't been given to him to play with as his toy; once he trusts you, will allow you to hold him, cuddle him, rub his stomach, or will stay contentedly in your lap for hours; walks on the leash well; usually ignores other dogs when out walking even when they try to engage him in barking or they are straining against their leash to get to him; is gentle with kids though I closely supervise; travels in the car well, but have to encourage him to get out at rest stops because of traffic and new situations;

Any other suggestions the members would have on getting him more socialized to new people and situations would be appreciated.
Thanks.... Greg Z

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Permalink Reply by Nicole on November 6, 2007 at 5:21pm

Hi. :) I didn't realize you even knew this site existed. You found it long before I did. I hope Nick's doing well and that you don't mind that I asked for suggestions on how to help him. Partly looking for suggestions for you and partly so that Lucas and I have a better idea of how best to avoid scaring Nick when you come to see us for Christmas.

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Permalink Reply by Greg Zaffuto on November 6, 2007 at 5:39pm

No problem... I tried some suggestions that I found here to try and get him less nervous about going in the kennel. Put some treats just inside the open door, tried to put his food bowl there, etc. but he wasn't having none of it. I can still pick him up and carry him over to the kennel, but he acts like I am punishing him and is not happy there even though I try to soothe him down and give him a treat. He is fine and all happy after I let him out, but I have to hurry to get his leash on and out the door or he will submissive pee (probably thinking he was punished and I am unhappy with him). I may try a different kennel instead of the wire cage type and try one that is canvas and more like a den.

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Permalink Reply by Nicole on November 6, 2007 at 5:51pm

Have you tried putting in one of your undershirts that you have worn? I wonder if having your scent in there might make him feel better about being inside? Before you buy a canvas kennel, you're more than welcome to give it a trial with ours when you come from Christmas. I've already got it set up in the living room. Try to desensitize Colleen to it so that when we leave her with a dog sitter because we are going out of town, she'll have a familiar kennel that is easy to carry back and forth, versus her wire one that has to be dismantled and takes up a ton of space.

Obviously, we don't know what kind of breeder Nick was owned by, but I know that alot of backyard breeders keep the dogs in very small kennels/etc. I almost wonder if he was in that type of situation and associates being in the kennel with being stuck in a kennel 24/7 at his first home. Possibly even if that's where he was abused, he may associate being in the kennel with punishment because after he was hit, he was stuffed in his crate. I honestly don't know.

He's a great dog and I love him to death. I just wish he woudn't pee on me so much. lol

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Permalink Reply by Greg Zaffuto on November 6, 2007 at 5:59pm

One of my used undershirts?? Jeez, I'm trying to get him to not be afraid of the kennel... not knock him unconscious! :^) Yeah... maybe I can try the canvas kennel you have while I'm up there visiting and see if it makes a difference, although he will already be somewhat nervous from the trip and again staying in a strange place it may be different if I tried to get him comfortable with one here at home.

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