Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Sarah C. on February 27, 2010 at 5:58pm

Leave it be. This is from the same people who don't eat honey because the bees are enslaved.
Herding is as cruel to sheep as eating honey is stealing from bees.

Permalink Reply by Avyon on February 27, 2010 at 6:09pm

I never knew that people don't eat honey for that reason. My college was full of different types of vegans/vegetarians and I've learned to respect their choices if they respected mine. Though that is one I haven't heard of yet.

Permalink Reply by Sarah C. on February 27, 2010 at 6:25pm

http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=122

Permalink Reply by Avyon on February 27, 2010 at 6:36pm

Ooohh... I have to look into this some more. Thank you :)

Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on February 27, 2010 at 6:09pm

When I went to herding instinct testing with my dogs we were not allowed to videotape for exactly this reason.

Sheep move because they are intimidated by/afraid of the dog. Sheep are a great choice for herding trials because they are afraid of EVERYTHING, they translate even minor worries into movement, and they love in groups instinctively. But that means that a group of sheep in a herding trial does get repeatedly scared or at least worried.

I don't have any problem with that; having lived with sheep, they get scared when a branch moves, so my feeling is that their experience with dogs is not an overwhelming one and they do just fine as long as they are given rest and breaks. But others, who feel that no animal should ever have a negative experience and that the sheep should be sitting around watching General Hospital and never get worried, will object.

Permalink Reply by Avyon on February 27, 2010 at 6:36pm

I never knew sheep were that scared of everything lol. I did feel sorry for them at times just because some of the dogs just kept them moving.

Maybe the people allowed us to film and didn't realize I blog and post videos on youtube lol

I had no idea this was such a big issue that people don't allow people to film these events.

Permalink Reply by Beth on February 27, 2010 at 6:54pm

There are people who will tell you that you have no right to keep a dog as a "slave" either, so there you have it.

Permalink Reply by Beth on February 27, 2010 at 6:55pm

LOL. "Watching General Hospital." Yeah, that about sums it up.

Permalink Reply by justine moeller on February 27, 2010 at 6:17pm

Hi Sarah,
Please try not to judge peoples lifestyle choices. People become vegans for many reasons (myself being one of them for a long time) and there are a number of other reasons that people do not eat honey, including the fact most vegans avoid causing pain to any living thing at any cost and bees do infact have a complex nervous system. There is lots of information on the internet about why people choce that lifestyle.

As for herding, I do not know enough about it to comment on it. I guess it depends on the conditions. The person obviously feels the sheep are being abused in some way. Whether they are or not is I guess up to each of us on an individual level.

Permalink Reply by Sarah C. on February 27, 2010 at 6:27pm

I never said I had a problem with vegans, nor did I "judge" anyone. I'm just saying that you shouldn't let something bother you just because it's someone else's value. If sheep herding doesn't offend your values, don't let someone push their values on you. That is, after all, what tolerance is about. ;)

Permalink Reply by Avyon on February 27, 2010 at 6:42pm

I decided to just leave it be as it is. While I would like to educate them, I feel that just starting out at herding and only reading a little bit online about it isn't enough to educate someone about it. Especially from such a negative standpoint that it came as.

As for everything else. It sounds like you have a lovely farm :) I think someone growing and tending to their own is great. Though as I said before, I don't mind how other people live their lives as long as they don't try to alter mine.

I've had vegan friends still make meat portions for us meat eaters at dinner parties out of niceness and in turn I've made them vegan meals. It's kind of fun to try new things now and then. Though I do agree that it's bad to pressure someone to change. If they want to, they will on their own, you can only suggest things to people and not stuff your ideas down their throats. It never works.

Permalink Reply by Beth on February 27, 2010 at 6:52pm

I too would let it go. Joanna sums it up nicely: sheep are scared of the sun rising in the morning, and yes herding does cause them fear, but fear is a normal state for a prey animal and they quickly get over it. My father says deer in the woods will bolt from the sound of a shot, and then a minute later they are eating as if nothing happened. I once watched a hawk take a bird from my feeder. All the birds scattered, terrified..... and then five minutes later they were back, chattering amongst themselves. Such is the life of a prey animal: members spook or even die, but life goes on. The average life expectancy of a wild rabbit is about 3 months; its domestic cousins kept as pets can live 5 or even 10 years. Such is life.

Shawn (my husband) and I went to a local wild animal park once, and wandered through the petting zoo (nice summer day, young couple in love, and so on). There was the usual assortment: tame deer, sheep, dwarf goats, ducks, etc.

A young man came out of a shed with a couple big buckets of feed. These animals have probably seen this same young man, or one just like him, come out of that same shed with those same buckets twice a day for as long as they've been alive.

Most of the animals started bleating/quacking/baaing excitedly and scuttling towards their respective feeding areas. Except the sheep. Who ran in a group, panic-stricken, AWAY from the kid with the food.

My husband is from England, where sheep farms are plentiful, and the joke is that sheep try to hide under each other when they see the sun in the sky. So I wouldn't worry too much about the herding thing. Were it not for people keeping them for food/wool/hobby herding, the domestic sheep would not exist. That does not mean that we are free to treat them with unreasonable cruelty, but a little fear of herding is their price for being alive, if you want to think of it that way.

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