Attention/Distraction Training and General Overexcitement
Some background info: Casey is an 8 month, spayed Cardigan and has taken two puppy obedience classes (a basic class, and then an "advanced puppy" where they are introduced to agility equipment). She gets one hour of training/walks/fetch/running around every morning and every evening, with some intermittent play time during the day (I work from home). Sometimes she'll get a third walk mid-day if it's nice and I feel like going outside, but most days she gets at least 2 (20-25mins in the morning, 20-25 mins in the evening) followed by at least 15-20 minutes of hard running (we have a large backyard and she loves fetch and tug). So she gets 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours of mental stimulation and physical activity each day (and then she has chew toys/kongs/balls to play with/chew on when alone).
I have two general "complaints" about her behaviour that I'd hopefully like to do something about and which I imagine are connected to one another. First is that she is VERY easily distracted, particularly when on walks and second that she is VERY overexcitable when around other dogs and people.
My primary concern is about her behaviour on walks. She is distracted by everything. If a leaf blows past, she's distracted by it, if I accidentally kick a rock, she's distracted by it, if a car drives past, she's distracted by it. What concerns me is that she doesn't seem to be becoming habitualized to any of these things (particularly cars - they drive past us all the time, on every walk, and we take two walks a day, everyday...how could they still be distracting!?!?) We do positive reinforce training (with a clicker) and for walks the training was (and still is, we do this intermittently, but it was heavier before): when the dog is parallel to your seamline (down the seam of your pant) and giving you attention (eye contact), you click and reward (reward goes down your seamline to encourage the dog to stay at that point and not cut you off). The thing is, if we're out on walks and doing this training, she'll look at me to get the treat/kibble, but as soon as she get's it, her head will fly in whatever direction the distraction is (for example, a car driving past) and she'll stop walking directly down my seamline. She'll only look at me again, and align herself with my seamline, when she wants another kibble, and then again, her head will fly in the direction of the next distraction and she will not be align with me until she wants the next kibble.
This is particularly bad when people or dogs are out on our walk (which is where her overexcitement comes in). She basically "rubber-necks" other people or dogs that are in eyesight of where we are walking. There have been many occasions where she's rubbernecking so hard that she's in a "U" shape (her legs are moving her body forward, but her head is turned in nearly the opposite direction). Just last week she walked into a fence doing this (because she's not looking forward).
And her overexcitement is so ridiculously over the top it's almost obscene. She goes crazy when someone looks at her/talks to her or if another dog is near us. She starts lunging like crazy on the leash, whining, yelping, going crazy trying to get to the dog/person. I asked my puppy class instructor what I should do about this, and she said that I should try to distract the dog with something that was a higher "motivator" than the dog/person (AKA - food or toys). The only problem is that Casey's highest motivator IS other dogs/people (I've tried homemade liver treats, peanut butter, cream cheese, hot dogs, hard cheese - she pushes past all of these things to get a better view of the dog). How do I out-motivate that which is her highest motivation?
An illustration: in puppy class, one of the training exercises we did was put our dog in a "down" position in the training room (so about 10 dogs laying on the ground). Then we would start moving away from the dog and moving back in to reward them (with food-treats). As the dogs improved at having us move away from them and remain in the down position, owners would start moving to other dogs to reward them (so I would walk away from Casey and go reward the lab that was laying down a few feet away, and the lab owner would walk over and reward my dog, and so on). Casey was the ONLY dog that could not remain "down" when someone walked over to her to give her a treat. She was so excited someone was walking over to her, she was actually vibrating. She would immediately pop up because she wanted to say "hi" SO BADLY. We did a similar training exercise, except the dogs had to sit in a crate with the door opened and stay inside, and whenever someone walked over to her crate to treat her she would, again, be physically vibrating with excitement that someone was walking over to her.
So my question is twofold - first, am I expecting too much out of an 8-month old puppy? She has improved quite a bit since she was 4/5 months old (she can now walk down the street when someone is on the other side of the street without cutting me off to try and get to them, which she was doing before). Will she continue to improve with age, and perhaps calm down a bit/be less distractible?
Second, does anyone have training tips to improve this, or is this just her personality? In comparing her behaviour to other dogs in puppy class (there were about 10-15 in each class we took) she was BY FAR the most excitable puppy in the class - when most other puppies were tiring out after running/playing and training for nearly two hours, Casey was still going like the energizer bunny. And, as I say in the example above, she was the ONLY puppy who was became physically and visibly excited when someone walked up to her. Most other dogs just lay there calmly and accepted the treat.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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It sounds like you have a lovely, bright, curious, motivated Corgi girl! Here is where I have a minor problem with the way training classes are conducted these days. Don't get me wrong, I do think it's wonderful that there are so many great classes out there, BUT they do like to march people right up. I got my basics in dog training from my father, who worked bird dogs, and he always told me "Never expect much from a dog under 1 year old." Now, one year is a rough guideline (some dogs are settled at 10 months, some at 18), but it's a good estimate. That means until 1 year or so, training is a game and the way I train, I only do training when I know they can succeed until the dog is mature. So for example, my "distraction" training would involve high motivators (like the recall game with praise and excitement and treats at both ends while the dog runs madly back and forth) in a deserted park, for example.
I did not do CGC with Jack til he was 2 because he was soooo not ready. He could not walk by a person or dog at 8 months without nearly tearing my arm off wanting to reach them and greet them. At 8 months, a dog has a very very short attention span. I tried doing "long" stays (meaning walking away for more than a couple seconds) at around 11 months and it was clear that by the time I walked away, he had forgotten what we were doing. So I stopped practicing them completely, and picked up again at around 14 months, and he was a whole different dog; even without any practice in between, he instantly "got it" and knew what I wanted from him. What had changed was his maturity and focus.
Personally, if it were me, I would just tolerate the behavior for now (neither reward nor punish) and then in a few months, start working with her again. And what you want to do is use the clicker or whatever method to shape her behavior. So right now, you reward for her looking at you. That's great. But as time goes on, you reward her for staying at attention for progressively longer periods of time. What I like to do is use a treat as a lure, and then when the behavior is achieved fade the lure. So, for example, you can hold the treat above her nose as she walks next to you. In the beginning, you hold the treat, the dog looks, and you immediately give the treat. Then you hold the treat, the dog looks, you give the word you want to use to mean "pay attention to me" and give the treat. Then you hold the treat, the dog looks, and you only give the treat after the dog holds contact with you for, say, 3 seconds. Then 5 seconds.
Then you go back and start over, but what you do is say the "look at me word" first, with NO treat out, and when the dog looks, you THEN reward. You then progress to 3 seconds, 5 seconds, etc before rewarding. After the behavior is mastered, you move to intermittent reward.
The goal is to shape the behavior so the dog must hold her attention on you for progressively longer periods before getting a reward, til she gets the idea that she is meant to hold on you til you release her.
But again, if it were me I would not expect that of an 8-month-old puppy. I like puppies to be outgoing and have barely contained enthusiasm and want to greet the whole wide world. It's way easier to crank down that behavior than try to warm up a shy or reticent dog.
She sounds lovely. Good luck with her!
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Oh, and I completely agree with Kerry about working on sudden changes of direction to keep her focus. Corgis especially (as herders) love this and naturally get excited by it. I also agree with mixing up rewards. Ask for a sit before you throw a tennis ball. Ask for her paw before a game of chase. Make her do a down before a game of tug. That helps make the dog realize that "training time" is not something separate from every day life, but something to be integrated into all activities. I think it also teaches the dog composure and self-control; sitting when you are wriggling from excitement to chase a tennis ball is a great mental exercise.
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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We absolutely ascribe to the "nothing in life is free" training technique. Casey sits to go outside, does a variety of tricks to get treats, sits to play fetch/tug (this one is particularly challenging, as you say, because I'll squeak the toy and sometimes drop it on the ground without releasing her from the sit - she's gotten quite good at waiting), does a list of things for her daily kibble, has to be "invited" out of her crate (we open the door, but she can't come barging out, she has to be given the "ok" to come out), etc. She is VERY well behaved on pretty much all accounts (and I've had a number of other dog owners tell me this as well), just those issues listed above which, as you've both explained, are probably in large part a function of her age and her status as a herding dog. Even the cutting in front (which I talked about in a post last week) has pretty much gone away (at least inside, outside is another matter that we're working on...) since I starting intentionally walking into her in the house. Just this afternoon I was sweeping and she almost ran in front of the broom, but then changed her mind and stayed behind me while I swept (I was so proud of her!)
Regarding the changing direction - I've tried this technique, but as you say Beth, she gets "naturally excited by it" and starts running in the new direction, which is kind of the opposite effect I wanted (she was already barging in front/not paying attention when I changed direction). So she'll just run out in front of me in the opposite direction. I've tried this a number of times, and the effect is always the same. She just gets really excited and thinks we're playing a game of "I turn around and Casey tries to see if she can "beat me" in the new direction."
Is this the intended effect? It doesn't seem to accomplish much more than rile her up!
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She really sounds lovely!
Kerry works her dogs on her farm, so she may give a better answer on your question about running in the new direction than I would be able to provide! However, it is true you need to shape your training to your individual dog's learning. For example, I absolutely cannot use a treat as a lure for Maddie for position training (down, sit, etc) because she gets so excited by the treat that she ignores what she is doing; she could be standing on her head for all she knows. And I can't use "high value" treats with either of them, except for special stuff like emergency recall training, because they find the treat distracting. So I use low value treats (Charlie Bears, cheerios, carrots) during training and save the good stuff for after.
So definitely shape your training to your dog. From what you are describing as far as changing directions, if it were one of mine I'd try doing it on a relatively short leash so I could halt the running in front, and use a treat in that same hand as a lure to get her to understand that she was meant to stay next to me. That would work for Jack and probably for Maddie, but that does not mean it would necessarily work for your dog! As I said, Kerry may have some more tips on that.
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Permalink Reply by Sarah C. on
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one thing that might help on walks, whenever I'm with Reagan and Didi and we're passing someone/something and he's like, OMG BIRD/PERSON/DOG/LINT, i pick up the pace so that he has to concentrate more on not stumbling and stubbing his face, and less on what's passing by. It helps very much that I have another dog to walk with him though.
p.s. dont do what i did, where he started for something, i started into a jog, didnt look where i was going and i stubbed MY face on a branch. NOT GRACEFUL. Both dogs looked at me like i had lost my mind.
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Permalink Reply by Blue Corgi Zena on
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I found this post very interesting because this is exactly what's happening with my Cardi girl, Zena (6 month old). The only difference would be that strangers are the biggest motivation for her. Then other dogs, some special foods. I can't distract her with any kind of treats so far as long as some people pass by. She just becomes flat in front of people and acts like,"please touch me."
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This is a puppy thing! Puppies think their very lives depend on making sure EVERYONE is their friend! Remember we have genetically selected for this for thousands of years, and then the good breeders also work very hard on getting their puppies to think every human in the world is the most wonderful thing to happen to them. They parade people into their houses specifically to make huge fusses over puppies.
Mine thought every person was the best thing since sliced bread, til he was about a year old at which point he changed his focus to only those people who looked at him and smiled, and then as he matured he changed his focus further to only those people who made an effort to interact with him. Both of mine will still glance hopefully at people who are walking by chatting and laughing, but quickly discern whether or not we are stopping for a visit. Though I must admit squealing children are still a great delight for them both, especially for Jack.
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It's nice to know that this is typical "puppy" behaviour. Casey is my first pup, so it's hard to know what to expect or what is a reasonable expectation for her. My puppy class instructor seemed to have very high expectations for her, and she's so excitable that it seemed like she would never meet those expectations. As long as this is normal, and I can reasonably expect that she'll calm down at least a little bit when she hits adulthood, I'm happy with that.
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Permalink Reply by Wendt Worth Corgi's on
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NILF training is very affective and I thoroughly believe in it. Just remember...every dog learns at different rates. I have dogs like Winston, Baron, Kiara, and Meagan who were perfect at leash work. Some by 6 months and others at 8 months. Then the commands and holding those commands while others distract was a harder thing to grasp for Kiara and Meagan both. Its patience, consistency, and positive reinforcement and the biggest thing is knowing when to continue and when to give it more time for your dogs maturity. Sian was my biggest challenge. I knew if I pushed training to succeed like the others I would destroy a part of her so I left it go and dealt with it. By the time she got to be alittle over 10 months to a yr old we really started to see changes in her. I knew she was smart and wanted to please and that was her biggest mistake..she wanted to please so much that she reacted before thinking which got her into trouble. LOL Now she is great! I love to work with them while I play...I will train for a few minutes and when they are doing well for where they are at then I toss the ball for them again. Its a great reward and the training doesn't bore them. Not sure the pace your traveling when your walking but sometimes to pick up the pace a bit keeps their mind on you and the walk...when you are going more at a pace for catching the sites they become distracted. When I walk..I walk and I don't stop..meaning if they start to drift I will pivot quickly w/no warning! They are to pay attention to me. Now a pup I will give a little warning thru the basics but once I know they've got the jist of it...I just pivot..they will learn quick enough.
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This is probably the simplest yet most effective advice I've ever received. Speed up! I tried it with Casey today, and it was so effective. Not only did it keep her from getting distracted as much, it also stopped her from picking up everything within a foot radius of her mouth (she's a living, breathing vacuum cleaner on our walks). She was almost in a run trying to keep up with me, and didn't have time to stop and pick things up with her mouth/gawk at things around her. We actually passed a dog that was standing in its front yard, and she didn't even notice because we were walking too fast and she was trying to keep up.
She also has the problem your Sian has - she reacts before thinking about a command. If I gave her a command to get a treat several times before, she'll immediately assume that was it and not listen to me at all. I'll usually give her a command to go into her crate if I get a treat for her, but sometimes I'll give her a down instead, but she won't listen, she'll just immediately run into the crate and then wonder why I'm not giving her a treat (even though I gave her a command to do a "down") and then start running in and out of the crate acting confused. It can be very frustrating. I don’t think it’s Casey wanting to please though, I think she just wants food and wants the fastest route for it to get into her belly.
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