Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Sam on March 30, 2008 at 8:28am

This is why we encourage people to become involved "before" considering breeding. One stands to learn so much about the desired characteristics of the breed, pedigrees, a bit about genetics and what is behind a good breeding program. So much more goes on then most people know. A little research will show you that rescues are full of unwanted corgis. Most a result of casual breeders, production breeders and pet shop sales. Why? Well generally the people selling these dogs do not educate their potential buyers about the breed. Most dont possess that knowledge. Doing a bit of reading through the blogs here will show you many of the health and behavior problems that people are having. Most are the result of people not learning "before" purchasing their pups and the sellers not taking the time to educate.
Checking the AKC site you will learn that a dog registered PAL is not able to compete in the conformation ring nor are their offspring registerable.
There is so much to learn and so many ways to learn it which would serve you well if you would follow that path first. There are many stories of emergency c-sections that can put quite the financial strain on you, puppies that dont thrive, moms that dont make milk, etc.
Becoming involved and finding a good mentor could teach you so much if you are open to learning. Do yourself and your dogs a big favor and take the time to learn. As I recall your dogs are pups and you have plenty of time.

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Permalink Reply by Lauren on March 30, 2008 at 8:43am

yes Pleanty of time...they arfe only 6 months. but under pal it says you can do junior showmanship. isnt this conformation classes for kids? could this lead into anything more?

and sam i love how you seem to be the first to answer like everything on this forum...are you always on?

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Permalink Reply by CorgiPants on March 31, 2008 at 11:15am

Junior showmanship is not a conformation class. The dog is not judged at all, only the handler. Junior showmanship is like a mock-conformation class if you will, since it is run like one but in no way are the dogs judged, the dogs do not win points or ribbons, only the handlers do. I would suggest you seek out your local 4-H club as many have excellent programs both for obedience and showmanship. In our county, we hold weekly classes for both in the spring with shows being in the summer.

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Permalink Reply by Charlie on March 30, 2008 at 12:51pm

If you and your dad are wanting to breed Corgis, it would benefit you to attend some conformation shows and talk to reputable breeders who can talk to you about what goes into maintaining and improving the integrity of the breed.

Your pups started as puppy mill stock, and one does not have AKC papers. They should not be bred, as you do not know what genetic faults they may be carrying from their heritage. You are at risk of higher medical complications which Sam mentioned, which could cost a lot more than whatever money you make on a litter. Without the proper health testing and genetic history, the puppies are more likely to have health or temperament problems which your "customers" would have to deal with. You will also have a harder time finding good homes, as the litter won't have any papers.

Best to get these two altered, get your dad some education, then start out with show/breeding quality dogs.

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Permalink Reply by Lauren on March 30, 2008 at 3:14pm

Thankyou all for all your helpful info. We will definatly spay Abby and probably Trevor. We need to spay Abby to show her in PAL, and she isnt the most corgi looking corgi out there. Trevor however (i dont think is a mismark...he does look liek the white on his side comes above his elbow but i tried to draw a straigt line from his elbow back and it doesnt look seem it does), might be doing some shows. i will see if i can find a handler and take him to a local show to see how he does. if he does well we might keep doing it.

Does anyone know how much an average local small show will cost, including entry and handler fees.

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Permalink Reply by Tekozi on July 1, 2009 at 4:42pm

Firstly you should let us know why you want to breed. That would be the first step.

I am wondering where you got your two corgis from? Why is she not registered? And you can not register the puppies or the mating if she is not AKC.

I also suggest you do research into the breed standard and see how your pooch matches up before you spend money to show him. (you probably are doing this already.)

Some Corgi Bitches can be difficult to breed. No matter what though, it MUST be supervised. If the female tries to run or roll she could seriously injure the male.

They are pretty good at whelping (all my corgi bitches get a little obsessed with eh umbilical cord though) but every dog is different. You have to be prepared to take your female for an emergency C-section, and have the money ready for it (down here its between $1,000 and $3,000)

You should also do a lot of research on reviving puppies that do not come out breathing. Sometimes EVERY puppy will come out looking dead. Corgis can have the tendency of pulling to much at the umbilical cord and causing Hernias.

I had a litter that the Momma Corgi decided she didn't want to be a mom. I had to raise the pups and force her to nurse them then separate as she would sit on them if left alone. So i had to make them go poop and keep them warm... I was on no sleep. they need to feed every 2 hours when there that young.

You have to be willing, prepared and have enough money might any of these (and a lot of other things) might happen.

Also be sure to get approved homes for puppies before you breed.

Its a lot of work!!! it can also bring heartache when you lose a puppy...

find yourself a mentor if you ever decide to breed, an experienced breeder is priceless. A good friend to help you with the sleepless nights, my sister stays over and takes the night shift when we have litters we must hand rear.

Hope the best for you. If you have anymore questions let me know =)

-Kat

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Permalink Reply by Beth on July 1, 2009 at 6:42pm

Hi Lauren. I think it's wonderful that you are so interested in competing with your dogs. Since you asked what you should do, I'll throw in my two cents. :-)

I don't think you should breed these two, and here's why: you have expressed an interest in a wide range of dog sports,and that's wonderful. I think you should try them all. But you don't yet know where your passion will lie. What if you fall in love with agility, or obedience? In either case if you want to compete at the highest levels, you may decide another breed suits you better than the Corgi. Border Collies, Aussie Shepherds, and Shelties usually compete at the highest levels in agility. Corgis are bright and learn fast, but are notorious for blowing it in the obedience ring (I'll have to find that video of the Mad Frapping Corgi in the obedience ring; it's the funniest thing).

You may find that you like herding. You may find that you like agility, but want to stick with Corgis and go for multi-titled dogs. If you are breeding for herding or agility, your goals will be different than if you are breeding for the conformation ring. A performance dog breeder uses the breed standard as a goal, but is more concerned with ability. A good breeder who breeds working farm Corgis, for example, might be perfectly happy with a 14-inch-tall stud dog if he is great with the livestock and passes that on to his get. A conformation ring breeder would not want to breed an oversized dog.

Good breeders have goals. There are conformation ring goals, but there are other legitimate ones too. The Border Collie people, for example, are generally not thrilled with their beloved dogs getting AKC acceptance; the most important characteristic of Border Collies for years was their herding ability and the "eye", not the length of coat or perfect conformation. The English Setter people have actually split into two groups, the field group and the bench group. So have the Springer Spaniel people. I'm not aware of such deep divisions within the Corgi breeders, but there are an admittedly small group that breed more for herding or performance than for conformation.

What type of breeder would you be, and does your foundation stock further your long-range goals? If you want conformation dogs, does your AKC male fit the breed standard? Do his parents? Does he have champions in his immediate family? Has he had his genetic testing? If you want performance dogs, does he have the ability? Even if he does, is it because it's in his blood? Or is he just a chance talented dog, in which case there is not too much likelihood that he will pass on those good traits? Remember, the quality of the individual dog is only part of the equation. On occasion, poor bloodstock can throw a decent pup, but that pup is more likely to pass on his genetic tendency than his own individual traits. Do you know his parents?

There is so much to breeding, and breeding just because you have a dog you like is not really a great reason. Learn about the dog world, find some experienced people to mentor you, use these two young dogs that you love as your springboard into the field of dog competition. Decide where your real passion lies, research bloodlines that will further that goal, work with a breeder who will set you up with a quality bitch whose lineage matches the direction you want to take, and then have at it. It might take you several years to figure it all out, but then you will know that when you are ready to start, you'll be starting from the right place.

I see on your profile that you have an appendix Quarter Horse. I'm sure you know that the racing people have different breeding goals than the roping people, who have different goals than the halter people, who have different goals than the barrel racing people, and than the hunter people. It's the same with dogs. Take some time and learn the field first.

Best of luck, whatever you do!

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