Back Legs Problem
Bubba is soon to be 11 years old in a couple months. a few weeks ago we were going downstairs where the computer room is and had already went down the six steps from the living room(2-story) to the foyer and then six more steps to the downstairs area.
I forgot something and told Bubba to stay there while I went back up to the kitchen. Of course, he didn't listen and came back up those last six steps to the foyer area but never got all the way up. When I looked his front paws were on the slate foyer but his back legs were still on the last two steps. He looked frantic so I grabbed his front two legs and pulled him up. Chalking this off to maybe he couldn't get traction on his front paws due to the slick slate I overlooked it.
This past Saturday we had gone out on the deck to go out in the back yard and there's 12 steps to go down. No problem, he's negotiated up and own those steps for years. He got to the first couple of steps and tumbled all the way down 10 more steps and landed in the yard. I was scared stiff he may have broken a leg, cracked a rib or worse yet, his back or neck. He sat there awhile and I felt all over him for problems but he got up and walked away like nothing had happened. No chancing another event like that I decided we won't go down those steps again.
Last night as we were getting to go out back for his last potty break around 8:30 we went down the steps inside to cut through the garage and out the back door. He got down all steps but as he made it down to the parquet floor his back legs were spread out like an eagle-one going to the left, one going to the right like someone trying to learn to skate. He stood there temporarily and then walked toward me but he was still walking with both feet outward. After about six feet of walking like that he finally straightened them out and was fine.
Part of me wants to blame this on his being overweight and being 10 years old. Another part wants to think the worse as being maybe the onset of DM. After what I explained, I'd appreciate any insight into this. We go to the vet today as I'm not waiting anymore for my guessing.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by D46 on
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I ended up in the emergency room yesterday for half the day. Bubba was having a hard time coming down the stairs. He'd start, turn around and try again for several times. Finally I picked him up and carried him down. When we got to the bottom I knelt down to sit him down and it felt like a hot dagger went through my upper back. I could barely move so called 911. Just when he needs me the most this happens. After several x-rays they told me I had injured the muscles or tendons that attach to the upper back-a thoracic strain. The put me on pain killers and a muscle relaxer. Now I can't carry him down if need be or help him if he falls...not a good situation.
This is called being between a rock and a hard spot. I should have known better but in his condition I had little choice. I'm not as strong as I once was at nearly 70 in a couple months nor do I weigh all that much at 135 pounds. I guess it was just too much.
I don't know if Bubba would take to the cart or not. I've tried folding a towel and putting it under his belly as to help in lifting him up the steps but he acts like he doesn't' know what to do with the front paws and just freezes. I'm about at wits end.
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Permalink Reply by Vicky Hay on
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That, to coin a phrase, sucks! Sorry for alluding to our collective old age, in light of this disaster. I've enjoyed a similar back fiasco, complete with 911 visit...it's excruciating!
Is there any way you can sleep downstairs, even temporarily? Maybe a rented bed or cot? Climbing the steps won't be much fun for you now, either, certainly not for the next ten days or so. Possibly Medicare could be persuaded to cover it? Could you claim it's impossible for you to get up & down the steps?
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I can get up and down the steps but I sure can't attempt to pick him up. This morning after about 15 minutes and several tries he came down the first set of six steps to the foyer. Rather than wait on him to try and get down the last steps to the downstairs where we always went through the garage and then out the back door to the backyard, I let him go out the front door to the yard and do his morning thing. Then, we went around back.
There's a couch downstairs but I doubt I could sleep on it and would have to drag his crate down there as well. I got him upstairs late last night with little problem-it's the coming down in the morning I get jittery about scared that he will fall. That's how I messed my back up, carrying him instead.
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Ugh, that IS a pickle. Agreed: getting down is harder than getting up. If there were a way to NOT have to go up or down for a couple of weeks, that would be ideal.
What's on the stair treads? Are they carpeted? If not, is there any way you could get a handyman in to install some temporary carpeting on the treads? That might make it easier for him. At one point you mentioned that he slipped on the parquet and that he was alarmed by the slate. How about getting an inexpensive area rug and a piece of no-slip underlay to place on the spots where he would encounter a hard or possibly slippery surface?
If he succeeded in getting down this morning, that suggests he CAN get down. Maybe the most conservative strategy is to go downstairs verrrryyyy slowly? If he doesn't feel pressured by a desire for food or by a sense that you're already downstairs so he must catch up, maybe he can get himself down.
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The steps are all carpeted. I did put two pieces of carpet at the ending of the first upstairs steps that's over the slate floor and down two pieces on the parquet floor. He can get down the first steps after several tries of getting close then backing up and starting again. That goes on for 10-15 minutes. I
I have a harness ordered that should solve this problem and I could carry him like a suitcase. Problem is now my back is messed up for a certain amount of time.
http://www.handicappedpets.com/heavy-duty-support-harness.html
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Permalink Reply by Linda on
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Don't try to carry him. I've been thru all that with Max, I'm 65 and have a fusion in my lower back, Max at his normal weight of 35 lbs (not over weight, just a big corgi) was too much for me to carry. I did put carpeted stair treads on and they helped for a while. What I had to do was put his front paws up on the 2nd step up and then his hind paws on the step below that to get him up. Coming down I stayed in front of him so he felt a bit safer, sometimes I had to just hold his collar to encourage him. Eventually it was no longer safe for either of us and he had to stay downstairs. That broke both our hearts but it was necessary. If you feel you can't trust him outside his crate at night slide it down the carpeted stairs. That's how I get heavy laundry baskets to the basement from the 2nd floor.
You can have a temp ramp built for him to go outside. We did that for Max many years ago when he developed IVDD in his neck and needed to curtail doing stairs. As for the slippery floors, look for cheap yoga matts. We have a store here called 5 Below...nothing over $5. I bought a bunch of the yoga matts and spread them all over the tile and wood floors. They are easy to cut to size if needed. They made a huge difference in his walking over those floors. May not be the mostly stylish look but his safety and well being are what's important. Check out any kind of dog group or even rescue groups in your area to see if maybe they have a cart that can be loaned or rented.
Unfortunately there is no cure for DM. You do the best to help him but it will progress. Just remember it is quality of life for him.
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That sounds like the way I've been getting Bubba up the steps. Coming down is the big problem as I can't help him with the back the way it currently is and I'm so afraid he'll eventually fall. I doubt he'd sleep downstairs and me upstairs. Summer of 2014 I had some vascular problems with my left leg(same as his) and I couldn't lay down in the bed beside him as my foot went to sleep. I had to go to the living room and sleep sitting up on the couch for several weeks. After about 30 minutes of being gone he started barking. I went back to the bedroom and his ears were sticking straight up. I went back to bed for a short time and he was ok. As soon as I thought he was asleep I'd go back to the living room. Not long afterward he started barking again so, he apparently doesn't like me being in another room and him not there.
I've considered a ramp but the steps are at a steep angle and it wouldn't make it better getting up...not sure about coming down. I even thought about having someone put in a dumb waiter somewhere so he can go up or down without fear of either of us falling. All this makes me wish I wasn't in a split foyer.
I don't know what a "yoga matt" is or looks like. I have pieces of carpet about a foot wide and 32 inches long. I put two of them at the end of the first steps on the slate floor and two more at the end of the second steps on the parquet floor. It's helped some.
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Here is a link to a yoga mat http://www.target.com/p/gaiam-yoga-mat-purple-3mm/-/A-15695584#prod... it's the foam mat that you practice yoga on, they are non-slip and actually comfortable to walk on. I just found it to be too expensive to try to cover all the tile and wood floors with rugs. The mats I got only cost $5 each, very cheap. Our outside steps are at a steep angle too but we just made the ramp longer so that it hit the sidewalk beyond the bottom of the steps, made for a much less steep grade. It should be either made out of something that has a non-slip tread on it or can be made of wood and covered with outside rug material so he and you won't slip on it.
Have you googled DM and read up on things you can do to make it easier for you and Bubba? Also to understand the progression of it.
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I'll look into that. I've read about DM till I'm purple in the face with about eight tabs showing in Firefox. I toggle between them to see if I can lean something else. None of it is very comforting.
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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I'm sorry you are dealing with such problems, both with yourself and with Bubba. He could have DM but since all this started after a fall, I think it's more likely to be a disc problem. Remember, a slipped disc does NOT show on x-ray, only on MRI. In dogs (like in people) one of the signs of a severe nerve compression issue caused by a disc pressing is weakness/numbness in the hind end.
If you haven't already done so, I'd take a lot of weight off him and see if it helps. If he won't stay downstairs alone at night, try giving him a Benadryl and/or crating him for a few days until you develop a new habit. You can't be trying to get him up an down stairs with your back issues, or one of you will end up with a broken neck at the bottom of the stairs.
The genetic test can help somewhat with diagnosis, but about 50% of Corgis carry the double recessive gene for DM with only a small portion getting DM. Moreover, there have been a few dogs that tested carrier or clear who had DM proven at necropsy. So there is really no way to be sure. It's a diagnosis of elimination in living dogs. But dogs who carry the DM genes can and do get IVDD. Two different vets we use for Maddie can't be absolutely sure if her issues are DM or a combination of spondylosis and hip dysplasia (though as time has progressed we are more confident it's DM). It can be very hard to tell the difference since both result in loss of nerve function and therefore loss of muscle control. One of the keys is that in DM, the dogs are usually eager to exercise but have trouble doing so and with disc problems they are more hesitant to try. But that's "usual" and not true of every dog.
One of the top rehab vets had an online article somewhere that said that somewhere around half of all Corgis suspected of having DM actually have IVDD. Disc disease is not always obviously painful in dogs. Sometimes it's just weakness, sometimes they have moderate pain but hide it well.
Hopefully you find some solutions.
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This is what kills me. Thousands of Corgis, GSD's and boxers have had this disease since at least the late 70's and no one can come up with a definitive test for it. They all leave you guessing and you never know for sure what's wrong with them or what to do for them. It's aggravating. Giving a confirmation after death with an autopsy is of little good.
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A voice of sanity.
My last GerShep started showing signs that MIGHT have been DM (the breed also is prone to it). She was 9 or 10 years old. The vet was skeptical and urged that we not assume it was DM. After awhile it became evident that her problem was pervasive arthritis. When she was 12 years old, another vet (closer to my house) found she had arthritis in virtually every joint in her body.
And the greyhound that was just about crippled after he slipped on the tile? I took him to the vet to be put to sleep, because we thought he'd fractured his spine and there was nothing we could do. The vet, in a last-minute move, gave him a shot of prednisone. He said it was a long shot. But in less than a day the dog began to recover, and before long he was back to normal. All of which is to say...try not to assume the worst.
Easier said than done, i know...
Y'know what, D46? Maybe it would help not to read the Internet. I like to call it "the hypochondriac's treasure chest," because every time I get a symptom or my dogs do, I'm on there searching for buried treasure, the scarier the better. There ARE a lot of other things that manifest the same symptoms. And really: if one vet gives you a DM diagnosis, do seek a second opinion. I won't let doctors do anything to me without a second opinion (well...except for the time they had me tied down in the ER and it was obvious I was about to die...hey...what can i say? :-D ) There's plenty of time to explore this with other veterinarians.
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