so i have a question about dog food. We have been watching my boyfriends parents 3 dogs why they have been working in MN we feed them Blue dog food or natural dog food because ithas no corn gluten or by product meal in it but when we went and bought our new baby corgi the lady says she feeds them diamond puppy food gave me a lil to take with me and told me not to feed him any walmart brands (which we dont any ways) because it mademoms hair fall out so anyways we went to pet plus and found diamond and once again it had chicken by product and corn gluten so i changed him to a all natural puppy food but i guess my question is i have only herd that its bad to feed them by product and corn gluten does anyone know why

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By-products are the parts of the animal that are unfit for human consumption and are not USDA inspected, as such.  There can be anything in there-- feathers, hoofs, beaks, stomachs, intestines, rats... whatever.  Unsavory things. (Though organs are good for your dog in an unprocessed state).  Mostly, they are not wanted in dog food because the quality of the food is very low, and even lower after being pressed and cooked.  Corn is bad because it aggravates/causes allergies in dogs, cats, and ferrets because they really are just not meant to eat corn-- or any grain for that matter.  Not even cows and chickens are supposed to eat [just] grain, but that is another story for another day.  Other grains often cause allergies, which is why "grain free" is kind of the hip thing in dog food now.  They're more filler than anything in a carnivore's diet.  

 

Check out the FAQ and some other discussions about "natural" dog food.  There is a website in the FAQ that links to BornFree USA which describes in great detail the deception of the typical pet food bag.

My boys eat Nutro Natural Choice-Lamb and Rice.. My one boy has food allergies- we found out about a month ago and since then have seen a big difference.. But Nutro has a wonderful website and it explains alot and also has a hotline you can call as well.. Best thing I ever did was put them on this food..

Mine will be the minority view, but I will say nothing is wrong with either, in and of themselves.

 

First, people will say "Dogs are not meant to eat grain" and then feed a food with potatoes or sweet potatoes.  No one has yet explained to me why it's NOT ok to feed grains because "wild" dogs do not eat grain, but it IS ok to feed potatoes even though wild dogs don't eat potatoes.  Seems to me to be a bit of a fad, to be perfectly honest.  Those Poodles of the Serengheti are not eating sweet potatoes any more than they are eating oatmeal, yet somehow sweet potatoes have been deemed Good and oatmeal (or corn or rice) is suddenly deemed Bad.  

 

Secondly, people state wolves don't eat grain and then ignore 50,000 years of dogs living with people, and the ones who thrive on human scraps living while the ones who don't die.  So there is that.

 

Thirdly, people will state that corn is a big allergy-causer.  Food allergies are not that common in dogs to begin with and corn is not even the most common (or second or third most common) allergen.   From http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2&aid=143 and other sources:

 

"In order of the most common offenders in dogs are beef, dairy products, chicken, lamb, fish, chicken eggs, corn, wheat, and soy."

 

And yet all over the internet you will find people repeating the idea that corn is bad because of allergies.  Chicken, eggs, and fish are all more common causes of allergies than corn, yet you don't hear people repeating not to feed chicken.  Why?  I'm not sure, but that's how viral information spreads:  If enough people repeat it, it becomes gospel even if there is little basis in it 

 

I've looked up studies and corn is fairly well digested by dogs.  It's mostly used to give carbs and reduce protein of the meat meal, and some dogs do better on corn while others do better on rice or oatmeal, and a handful might truly need grain-free.  But the cereals don't have that much difference between them, as far as I can tell.  One thing that is true is that corn is a very intensive crop to farm, requires lots of fertilizer and irrigation.  So you might consider it from that angle.

 

As for by-products, no it is NOT feathers.  From AAFCO's glossary of terms:

"Chicken by-product meal consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice."

That stuff sounds gross to us, but, well, lots of animals live primarily on just that sort of thing.  When carnivores kill small animals they eat most of it, including those parts.  Rendering and the extrusion process used to make dogfood is a whole different topic, but if the problem is with rendering and extruding, that happens whether the parts are "chicken" or "chicken meal" or "chicken by-product meal."  For the record, "chicken" itself as defined by AAFCO is not what you think of when you picture chicken.  It's "the clean combination of flesh and skin with or without accompanying bone, derived from the parts or whole carcasses of chicken- exclusive of feathers, heads, feet, and entrails."
So one company's chicken might be mostly flesh, another's might be mostly skin and bone.  So now we are down to this: how much do you trust the company?
Here's the deal, and I'm old enough to remember the evolution of the definition of "good" dog food:

Originally, many dog foods were mostly cereal.  Read the label of something like Kibbles and Bits and you'll see the same thing still.  Much of the protein derived from Corn Gluten Meal.  Any meat at all was Meat and Bone Meal, or unnamed Meat By Products, and it was far down the list.

Word got around among people who cared that corn gluten meal was an inferior protein source to meat, and that meat and bone meal or meat by-products was bad in that the meat was not named and could come from just about any meat. 
So the word became:  Find a food with meat or meat meal as the number one ingredient; don't choose a food with corn gluten meal as a significant protein source;  don't choose a food with meat and bone meal or mystery meat by-products.

Food companies like Iam's became famous for providing just that.  Primary ingredient is meat, grains are used to produce the kibble, by-product is from a named source (chicken) and further down the list, to help balance out proteins and provide micro-nutrients that are abundant in organs and offal and less abundant in meat.   And for years that was considered "good" food.

Then up came the internet and "corn gluten is bad protein" has morphed into "Corn causes allergies and is bad."   Avoiding mystery "meat by-products" and encouraging the PRIMARY protein source to be meat has morphed into "All by-products are bad."  And a handful of very expensive boutique food brands are making a fortune off of this.

I know that's not the popular opinion, but it's what I've seen happen.  
The breeder we got our dogs from has had dozens of champions and hundreds of healthy puppies feeding Eukanuba.  Eukanuba has both corn and chicken by-product meal.  
That's just my two cents.  I've looked into it quite a lot and really all I find is the same non-scientific sources repeating the same information so when you go online you just find it repeated over and over.  And if something is repeated enough, it becomes "truth" to many people.
I realize people feel very strongly about food (as they do about human diets;  put a vegetarian in a room with someone who follows Atkins and watch the sparks fly!!!).    I respect others opinions and hope I didn't offend anyone.   :)

well said Beth. I very much agree. I talked to a vet recently about the whole "natural food" fad. And while I feed my dog one of the fad diets (Taste of the Wild), I still respect and agree with what he said. Actually, there were two vets there and they said the same thing. They said THE ONLY food companies with veterinary nutritionists on staff are Hills, Royal Canin, Purina, and Eukanuba. I know a lot of people say that vets only say that because those companies pay them to etc, etc, etc, but still I'd trust a veterinary nutritionist to know what's best for my dog, rather than something I read on the internet.

Also we used to have a veterinary dermatologist in the vet I worked at, and it is very true that beef, chicken, and fish are the most common allergens from food. The dermatologist RARELY ever (if ever) saw pets that had allergies to corn or rice.

were actually feeding our puppy eukanuba puppy food right now but i dont think i saw ne chicken by product or corn gluten in it but thank you all for replying to my question guess maybe i should ask my vet what is best but i know my vet sales that science diet and it has chicken by product in itand corn gluten so cant b that bad but thank you all for the advise guess maybe i should reasearch it a lil

i work at petco so i can say for sure that eukanuba does in fact have by products. i believe its the 2nd or third ingredient. when u ask your vet what you should feed your dog they will try to push the science diet food on you because that company helps fund vets when in fact that is one the worst food you can feed your dog. 1st ingredient is by products and the rest is nothing but corn. and your vet will make it seem like its super healthy and all that but it is NOT true.

 

i am a nutritionist at petco as well as a trainer and the one thing u learn the most is DO NOT believe all the commercials u see.  when selling a product they want it to seem like its the greatest thing in the world. heres a good example: u know that commercial benifel? they make it seem like its a great food and that its so healthy when in fact it is the worst food that i sell at petco. its nothing but by products and corn. thats it. every single day we throw out at least 8bags because they are so infested with worms because the reason is that bugs like the nasty rotten meat they use to make that food. we also get about 10 returns a day saying how sick there dog is on it and they want to switch.

  the best thing u can do is research on line to see what is best for your dog. the blue buffalo is a GREAT choice of food. even foods such as natures recipe,merrik,wellness,halo, nutro,etc.

 

im not trying to pick on you by the way:) (i also i am not trying to offend anyone!)it just makes me mad when vets push the science diet on all the people that come in tryng to find a good food for there dog. i have 3vets i go to and they all tried pushing that food on me

Just to clarify:  Science Diet makes many prescription foods which could save your dog's life if it has a specific medical condition.  They make a VERY calorie-dense food for dogs undergoing chemo, for instance, and one that can be thinned with water and tubed to cats on a hunger strike.  They make an allergen-free one where the proteins have been reduced past a state recognizable by any antigens your dog has.  They have diets for dogs with kidney problems and very-low sodium diets for dogs with congestive heart disease.   These are good foods and you won't find an equivalent in stores because there is no commercial reason to make them.  Because Science Diet works with, well, scientists to develop foods for special-needs dogs, many vets are familiar with them.  

 

The Science Diet your vet sells (unless you live in an area with no feed stores) should be the prescription ones, only offered if your pet has a specific problem they are trying to resolve, and while made by the same company is not to be confused with what you see on your pet store shelves.  

Science diet does make specail foods for dogs who are sick i and i do apologize for not mentioning that. those are fine  like you said Beth and i know they also make an all natural brand as well with no corn,by products etc. the one i was talking about is in a white bag and those are sold at some grocery stores that one is no good
Just out of curiosity, who were you trained by to become a nutritionist at Petco? Just curious who they use and how they train and if you are trained by a veterinary dietitian or a specific food manufacturer (like Blue Buffalo or Wellness)? I've been told by a nutritionist at Petco that science diet was a great food, and then told by a nutritionist at petco to go with wellness, etc so just wondering who is behind training all the "nutritionists"

well we feed our dogs blue ive never have never fed them this diamond (diamond is not natural thats why i switched to the eukanuba)or eukanuba it says it all natural and the ingrediants lamb,brewers rice, corn meal,fishmeal,ground whole grain sorghum chicken meal,dri egg, chicken fat dry beat pulp ect

so when is says meal does that mean by product cause it does not say by product or corn gluten any where on it only meal example chicken meal 

still trying to get use to everything and keep messing up sorry everyone

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