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Permalink Reply by Shepdog on March 18, 2010 at 1:08pm

Man... about time. This has been a complaint in the industry forever, and my vet agrees. I'd love to see them crack down on a lot of this over the counter stuff you get at retail stores and grocery outlets. It needs to be taken off the market; too many animals are having liver issues, seizures, or worse, and people are putting it on correctly and yet the companies are like "too bad, so sad, your fault!"

What's scary is quite a few of the "natural" products with fleas are worse than their chemical counterparts, so to speak. It's downright scary how many animals have adverse reactions to it. People ask me -- what's the safest way to kill fleas and I'm like, uh, it's all dangerous in a respect. Fleas just don't magically die by thinking nice thoughts about them. Things that kill things are toxic -- otherwise, well, it wouldn't kill them. :/

Also, another interesting thing is how much of it ends up in the soil in dog parks. They did a study on it years ago, and some of the parks actually qualified as hazardous zones. Ugh.

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Permalink Reply by John Wolff on March 18, 2010 at 1:45pm

Like that guy who just recently successfully sued Hartz in small claims court -- representing himself, no lawyer(!) -- after his dog died of renal failure.
Toxic runoff in dog parks?!? Ew, maybe I should have the EPA test my bedcover...
I use Advantix because my wife doesn't want me bringing arthropods home -- she does small-child care -- what's more dangerous to a small child? Ticks, or poison? Pick your poison. Carefully.
Glad we don't have a huge Lyme Disease problem here on the Left Coast...yet.

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Permalink Reply by Shepdog on March 18, 2010 at 3:16pm

I'm glad too -- yeah, no, I will admit, Hartz products seem very questionable to me. :/ I would NEVER use it on cats or kittens; cats are super sensitive to toxins. Heck, you have to be careful about what kind of floor cleaners you use around them. Some of the pine smelling cleaners cause liver damage if they walk across damp floors and lick feet.

I was glad to see that he won that case, actually. I have to say, that's the problem. Most people back down when a corporation like that makes threatening moves towards you. They have the money to hire the big guns. The guy was absolutely right; I've had plenty of people tell me that their animal had issues with those products, and my vet feels they should NOT be sold because the danger's too great. I agree with him. I actually can get Advantage at wholesale through one of my vet suppliers, and you'd be amazed... the vets aren't making much money off of any of those products. I want to say it's around 10- 12 dollars profit, and that's it.

Personally, when people ask me for flea and tick products at the shop, I point them towards their vet. Most of the time those are the people who complain about the price; and while I do understand it's a big chunk of change, I just consider it the safest course.

The only thing I really stock is a floor product that's diatoms and boric -- and I tell them read the instructions, take every animal out of the house, and treat it carefully. All my animals use Advantage sparingly over the year - and when I was doing SAR with the dog, yep, Advantix, because Lyme Disease. I actually squirted Advantage in my eye once while treating the crew, and it washed out fine and I was fine, haha. ;)

I will say one thing that made me really be even more wary about Advantage -- it will ruin your brand new leather sofa if you put it on the dog and he sleeps on it before it's dry. It actually took the color out, and softened the leather. I had no idea, and my vet didn't either. All spot-ons will actually do that; the companies know, but there's no warning out there on any of those products about it. Leather repair people know, and you can't fix it easy. Oh well, I had nice unmarked sofas for two weeks, haha!

I guess it's a major issue with a lot of leather furniture, and it's the base of the products, which is why it works to move all over your pet. That said, it was a real wake up call on my end, and now I use it even more sparingly. ;)

They actually did some research on somewhere -- I can't remember where I saw it. Maybe a newsletter for the pet industry... about the number one way to get rid of fleas? Vacuum more often and dump your bag/canister out in the trash more often instead of letting it sit until it's full. Or hardwood floors.

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Permalink Reply by Sky and Lyla on March 18, 2010 at 3:40pm

Yay for me... I have hardwood floors!!

I do use some flea/tick meds (Frontline Plus usually), but I only use during the summer, and not every month. Also, I will only buy from a vet, but in order to save a little extra money, I buy the largest size tube they have and use a syringe (no needle) to measure and apply it (I had the vet tell me exactly how much to apply, they were nice enough to do it).

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Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on March 18, 2010 at 8:42pm

Good info, I would like to not wreck my new leather couch this spring!!

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Permalink Reply by Beth on March 18, 2010 at 1:14pm

I'm curious to hear more about which products are causing problems. What concerns me is how many people use them wrong (and yes I know there can be problems even if you use them right). The Advantix container clearly says to put in 4 spots down the back yet I know of people who put it all one one spot. It says in huge letters not safe for cats....

If it were just the fleas I wouldn't use anything unless they had fleas, but it's the ticks that worry me. We have huge tick issues here. *sigh* I guess there is no perfect answer. I always watch mine extra carefully afterwords to make sure they don't act funny or uncomfortable in any way.

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Permalink Reply by Sam Tsang on March 18, 2010 at 2:02pm

Quite a few, and there are counterfeit products on the market as well. I think this EPA FAQ answer a lot of the common questions.

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