Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Gail L on April 22, 2011 at 1:54am

You have just described my Poppet. When we play fetch with her and Cane she is the one barking and Cane is so quiet. She occasionally gets the ball but never brings it back, she just drops it so Cane can bring it back. She can't bark and carry the ball at the same time, ha,ha.
I hope someone responds....I'd like to see their suggestions. thanks for posting this question.

Permalink Reply by Yuki & Ellie on April 22, 2011 at 12:17pm

Have you tried calling any trainers in your area?  You don't have to hire them if you don't want to, but see what information or tips they can offer you.  A google search offered countless pages on how to stop a dog from barking (though certainly a lot deal with barking in general and not during play specifically.  The first result showed this:

 

"If your puppy barks continuously when playing, stop play immediately and allow him to calm down. Resume play only when he's stopped barking. Always be consistent, he must understand that barking means no play."

 

My Yuki is a barker (though mostly at noises) and I'm slowly working on the command to get him to stop (I use the word "enough").  I give him lots of praise and/or treats when he does quiet down and he's starting to quiet down more reliably.

Permalink Reply by Melissa and Franklin! on April 22, 2011 at 1:34pm

thanks for the info, I just moved here and am having a heck of a time finding a trainer. I just wanted to do some rally or agility classes with Franklin since he's been through all the basic training already. I can't find anybody or get anybody to respond. Very frustrating. I have tried to stop play, etc. Problem is I can't catch him mid-act because he is usually chasing something and by the time he gets back to me he has stopped barking. For example, a lot of the barking is during chase, so if I throw a ball/stick/etc he barks while running after it, but then not on the way back (he usually doesn't retrieve, just chases).  He used to bark when I went to throw it and has learned that if he barks he doesn't get the toy when he is near me. I think he's learned though when he is farther away I can't do anything to stop him. This is when he is chasing dogs when he's playing too. He runs and barks and barks and barks when another dog is chasing a ball or toy, then when the dog is returning the object Frank runs along with it quietly. He knows the command "quiet" and "no bark" but totally ignores it once he's on the run. The word "bad dog" is like the ultimate punishment for him and I've even tried using that phrase once or twice, it works but then he cowers and gets so upset. Not sure where this reaction came from, but its very effective so I rarely use the term and only in extreme situations so I don't want to use it when he is playing. I guess I could work more on the no barking or quiet command in a more controlled environment and then work up to the crazy Frank moments.

Permalink Reply by Beth on April 22, 2011 at 3:58pm

Melissa, I think this is tough to stop and not sure it's even desirable to do so. Unlike Border Collies and other sheep dogs that tend to work quietly, Shelties and Corgis and some of the other herders were often dogs who barked while they worked.  It's sort of like saying "How do I get my beagle to stop baying when he's on a trail?"  It's a breed trait.  Jack would bark constantly while he plays except he has picked up a delightful habit of carrying one toy while he chases another, which muffles the sound.  So you can try stuffing a tennis ball in his mouth while he runs.  :-)  

 

Maddie barks when another dog runs and barks excitedly if someone has tennis balls/frisbees/sticks/stands around looking like they might have something in a pocket to throw later on, etc.    Trying to stop hard-wired behavior can frustrate the dog.  I know the noise can be overwhelming.  When I play with the Chuckit indoor launcher, ohmigod the noise is awful because both of them bark while I hold it, bark til I launch it, grab the toy and drop it and start barking again until I throw it.  Jack sometimes gets himself so excited that he throws up.   *sigh*

 

Have you seen this video of a working Corgi that I posted before?  She barks the entire time she's working. I know not all of them do, but I believe it's more or less the norm.

 

http://www.mycorgi.com/forum/topics/if-you-want-to-know-why-your?id...

 

Hate to say it, but that's why lots of the bigger breeders get their dogs "debarked."  Maddie is debarked; they do the type of surgery that softens the bark without silencing it and she always sounds like she's got a chesty cold.  Not something I recommend for pet owners, but having two I can see why someone who has 8 would opt for the surgery.

Permalink Reply by Wendt Worth Corgi's on April 22, 2011 at 4:15pm

This is what I call a happy barker and I have a couple of them like that and you will drive yourself crazy to try and control it. Barking relieves stress and annoying as it is...it comes with the breed. Like Beth mentioned, bark softening is probably the best route to go if behavior management doesn't work. If I had a vet around me that did the procedure and knew he was qualified, I'd do it in a heart beat.

Permalink Reply by Beth on April 22, 2011 at 4:16pm

Just to clarify, Madison was already debarked when we got her.  :-)    Having only two I wouldn't do it myself but her breeder has close neighbors and lots of dogs in the house, so she debarks all of hers or her neighbors would hate her...

Permalink Reply by Melissa and Franklin! on April 22, 2011 at 4:28pm

yeah I guess I feared it was not a behavior I could stop. Franklin has had a herding instincts test and definitely was a barker while herding the sheep. I actually think stuffing a ball or toy in his mouth might be a method I can try :-) He likes to carry toys in  his mouth anyway so it may work! I would NEVER EVER debark him. The procedure is incredibly painful for the dog and actually the vocal chords can grown back and/or heal so a lot of times the procedure doesn't even work and you spent all the money and put your dog through all the torment for nothing. You will also be hard pressed to find a quality vet that will actually do a debark anymore, and I like his "talking" just not his crazy constant bark. I guess I'll just buy me and my neighbors some ear plugs :-)

Permalink Reply by Wendt Worth Corgi's on April 22, 2011 at 4:37pm

Heel. Sit. Whisper. Good Dog. Questions answered about devocalization

Here is an article describing the procedure by professionals.

Permalink Reply by Beth on April 22, 2011 at 4:49pm

Not suggesting it for you, but in defense of the breeders who do it, I've looked into it quite a bit and haven't found much evidence (except from animal rights groups who want it outlawed) that it's painful or upsetting to the dog.   Certainly it seems less painful than a spay, which hurt Maddie so much that she nearly refused to walk at all even while on morphine.

 

Here's a Sheltie breeder's view:

http://www.naiaonline.org/articles/archives/debark_qna.htm

 

I also read the article Wendy linked to and quite a few others when I discovered Maddie had been debarked.  I concur with the vet that it reduces volume by about half and makes the bark less shrill.  She just sounds hoarse, like a dog who came back from being boarded and barked the whole time.  I can't ask the dog how she feels about it, but she seems no less inclined to bark and you'd think if it bothered her it would make her reluctant to vocalize.

 

At the time we got Maddie, her breeder had 9 dogs in the house.  Imagine 9 Corgis playing (and hers do play; she doesn't even have kennels and they are all house dogs).  Nine might sound excessive but it's not unusual for a breeder to have that many.  You figure 3 or so breeding-age bitches, a heart dog or two that are retired but will never be rehomed, a couple stud dogs and 2 or 3 young dogs that are coming up (puppies waiting to mature, etc) and that would be about normal for a breeder who's active in the ring.  

Permalink Reply by Melissa and Franklin! on April 22, 2011 at 5:51pm

In my Vet Tech classes we talked a lot about debarking. My teacher talked mostly about the laryngotomy procedure. She also knew first hand MANY dogs who fully recovered from the oral procedure and the vocal chords healed and they got their bark back. Basically the oral procedure was thought to be a waste of money because it often had to be repeatedly done, but then again it is minimally invasive. The laryngotomy is true "debarking" and I think we can all agree should only be done in EXTREME situations. You have to question any procedure that is outlawed in several countries and frowned upon by most vets. HOWEVER, I view it the same as I view a declaw, I personally would NEVER put my pet through a procedure like that but if it means keeping a dog or cat from entering the shelter system then by all means get it done. I would much rather see a dog debarked or a cat declawed than see them end up at the pound or euthanized. I just think it needs to be viewed as a last option and behavior modification needs to be attempted before a surgery. We have a lot of clients at my hospital who just ask about debarking as the easy way out and haven't even attempted addressing the behavior from a training stand point. One of our rescue dogs at our kennel is debarked and boy can that dog make a lot of racket even though it is at a lower decible, and obviously the owners were searching for the easy way out and when the dogs behavior wasn't magically improved by the procedure the dog was surrendered to the shelter. As will all things regarding our pets, education is key

Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on June 11, 2011 at 11:33pm

Melissa, I agree with you 100%  regarding debarking.  As for managing Franklin, Beth is right, you can't change his nature without breaking his spirit.... I would not engage him in play that elicits barking when and where  that is annoying to you or to neighbors, opting instead for long walks, etc.  You may choose to play that way when it's OK for him to let loose and do it for a short time.  If you're on good terms with the neighbors, you might  tell them that they may hear him bark for 10 minutes or so when you play with him and keep it at that, choosing a time of day when it's all right.  If they know it will stop in 10 minutes and it happens once a day or less, they may not mind at all.  Of course I would discourage general barking as with any other dog, but getting him excited in play and expecting him not to bark would be unfair and, it seems, unreasonable.  You can try to play at short distances (less excitement) and, if that works,  very slowly increasing to medium range, with a long throw only occasionally..... letting him bark on the long one, but not throwing the long one if he barks on the shorter throws.

 

Permalink Reply by Lucy & Ricky (Wendy/Jack ) on June 11, 2011 at 11:46pm

@Anna - Very wise comment. So far my neighbors have been very indulgent of the barking, but maybe because it is only in short bursts of frapping. I thought that Lucy was my first Corgi that barked when "herding." But I remembered my Maggie who would run around the pool barking every time our other Corgi, Rookie, would go for a swim (which was all the time in the summer!). Didn't realize until now that she was herding. I thought because Rookie actually pushed her in the pool when we first got her that she had some memory of that event that played out when he'd swim. haha. It was all herding. We would try every which way to get Maggie to stop barking at Rookie, in the pool, to no avail. Thankfully these fits of frapping are frantic but short...like a Corgi!

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