The Limp Is Back
I started a discussion a while ago during the limping epidemic that seems to be going on about Finnigan limping ("Another one Bites the Dust"). His limp would come and go and for the last week at least he's been limp free. When I came home at lunch today to take him potty, he hobbled out of his crate and didn't want to walk. His limp is pretty bad and for no apparent reason. We don't have a yard so anytime he is outside we're with him and he hasn't done anything crazy. Besides that, he wasn't limping in the morning so what could have happened to him in his crate? Anyway, I am stumped and worried so tomorrow after work we're taking him to the vet. I was hoping to avoid this because not only is it expensive but how do you know that the diagnosis is correct? I hope it's nothing serious and I really hope he doesn't need surgery but most of all I want him to feel better. It's so sad seeing him limp around and despite his obvious pain, he still wants to play. He'll try to move at a jogging pace but ends up hopping to avoid putting weight on that back right leg. I'll let you all know what the vet says tomorrow. Wish him luck!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on
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Good Luck. Occasionally Wynn has done this and has had to go on a steriod (I believe ) but this has always helped!
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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Poor Finn! Hopefully it's just something minor. Please let us know what you find out from the vet.
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Permalink Reply by Judi, Dawn, Soffie & Griffyn on
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Boy, I understand your concern! It just kills me to watch Soffie pull her little leg up when she tries to do more than she should.
Does Finnigan jump up and off furniture?? Soffie was a real jumper and I can't help but wonder if that didn't contribute some to her eventual torn ligament. And before her injury, she would occasionally show signs of slight lameness that in hind sight may have been a precursor. From what we've read about ligament injury is that it happens either as a "sudden event" or it can wear over time.
We really hope everything is ok, and that you find out it's nothing!!
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Permalink Reply by Alice on
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No he doesn't jump on and off furniture. He's never been physically capable of jumping onto things since he doesn't seem to have much spring in his lelgs.
Did you say that Soffie's was a partial tear? Did they do surgery?
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Yes... partial tear, at least by their best estimation; because she could always walk on it without showing much pain. We opted (so far) to let her heal on her own, but surgery is still an option. Surgery does not repair the ligament, it only stablizes the joint and then scar tissue that forms is what keeps the joint in place. And, from what we read, the scar tissue forms on it's own too without surgery it just takes longer. So, with the blessing of the orthopedic surgeon after her exam, we stuck with our decision to use "conservative management" simply put, letting her heal on her own. But..... it is a long slow process of keeping her activity strictly restricted, something Dawn is much better doing than I am. It's been 12 weeks now since Soffie's injury. She is now allowed to take short walks, but definitely shows a limp if she tries to break into a trot or a run.
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My parents' dog had the surgery; she had a rupture. Yes, it is scar tissue that stabilizes the joint. The surgeon they used uses fishing line (surgical filament, actually) to form the base for the scar tissue, as it is easily removed later if something goes wrong with healing.
With a total rupture, you may notice the dog is lame walking or standing but relatively sound running; apparently the mechanics of running mean that the joint just sort of keeps rolling back and forth and the lack of stability actually becomes LESS of an issue at higher speeds.
The vet told my parents that when one goes, the other often follows because some dogs (like some people) have genetically weak ligaments. In their particular case, it was a traumatic injury that caused the rupture and the dog's other leg is perfectly fine.
After the surgery, she is now sound enough to hike, swim, and even hunt.
As an aside, it is my opinion from what I am hearing that this ligament issue seems to be a burgeoning problem and it would not surprise me if it's one of the things the retrieving breeders especially start trying to find a gene for. I hear of more and more dogs blowing the ligament....
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Beth..... interesting note about running vs walking. I'm going to have to show that to Dawn : ) when she keeps reminding me not to let Soffie run! But.... there again, her injury is a partial tear.
And.... it wouldn't surprise me to hear sometime off in the future about something genetic. Let's all remember we talked about it here first!
Sheepdog .... interesting theory too about "couch potato dogs". We walk Soffie and Griffyn twice a day, but I'm sure it's not equal to a good romp around a herd of sheep or cattle.
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Permalink Reply by Shepdog on
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Beth, I think a lot of the reasons you're seeing more ACL tears and ligament issues... well, this is my opinion anyway, haha...
We have a whole lot of couch potato dogs who don't do much for weeks and then go out with the family and do concentrated activity. Their bodies simply aren't ready or toned or muscled enough to keep them from twisting funny, landing funny (and often, they're overweight.) It's sort of like asking a human to run five miles if they've been only at a desk for months and months; the chances of serious injury are higher. I see a ton of dogs come into it at work, both small and large, and usually that's the pattern I figure out quickly.
Alice - I have a silly question? Does that limp ever shift legs at all, or is it confined to that one leg? I looked through the responses from the old thread and didn't see if that was answered, but I'm also high on cold meds, so... ;) Simon was doing some random limping of and on his front legs for a bit, and I took him in and had him x-rayed and examined and they couldn't give me any diagnosis at all. I finally had to chalk it up to growing pains - and having Shepherds I thought immediately of Pano. We just did some low grade walking for a few weeks, no ball, no zooming, and he's as right as rain again, the little stinker.
Remember, sleeping funny with a leg under himself could cause that - the muscles stiffened and the leg stiffened. With Cardis, you have to think HD, of course, and I hope it's not that - but on a high note, every breeder I've chatted with about it says most of the time they compensate just fine with moderate exercise and keeping them on the lean side.
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No, I have not noticed it shifting legs, it's always in that back right leg. It's been going on for about a month now. It started after his birthday get together at the dog park (that was the worst limp) then got better until two weeks later after playing for hours with my Mom's Cardi. It came back then gradually got better again. It would show itself a little bit every so often, mostly after having been in his crate for a while. This time there was no extreme activity to bring it on and he's favoring it more (2nd worst limp). He'll lift it sometimes when he's standing and hop when he tries to start running. I wonder if he'd be better off sleeping outside of the crate. He's always slept in it but it seems like being out of the crate would allow him to readjust more often and keep from staying in a position that promotes stiffness and soreness. That would be a big step for him but we may have to try it out and see if he can behave.
As for HD, if you noticed in the last discussion, his vet did diagnose him with it at 8 months. I posted his x-ray in the discussion. We've been giving him supplements since then. He's only a year old though and that seems so early for it to be causing him this much pain. I too have heard that Cardis handle it well, but his hips look pretty bad so I don't know what to expect. The vet said he may never have problems or he may end up needing pain management down the road and surgery as a last resort. I hope he's one of the ones who can handle it. *fingers crossed*
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Soffie always slept in the bed with me (after her 1st birthday) but since her injury she is sleeping in her crate. Confinement is recommended in conservative management. So, I'd say if he's used to sleeping in his crate ( and this is just my opionion) I would continue having him sleep in the crate. At least until you can find out what is wrong with him.
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I will definitely see what the vet thinks. The other issue with the crate is that he ends up pushing all the bedding to one side so he is lying on the hard tray. That can't be good for 8 hours. If we left him out, I would still confine him to our room. I think he would just lay down and sleep if we were sleeping, but I want to be sure he wouldn't try to chew anything or go to the bathroom. I don't want him to be in the crate forever though so at some point we'll need to start the transition from crate to dog bed.
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Shepdog, I was going to bring up Pano but could not remember the name of it... one of the women I work with has a Dobie going through that now.
As for couch potato dogs going out and being active, that's the same as the idea of "weekend warriors" in people, and I am sure there is something to it. In the case of my parents' dog, she was fit but slipped going over a log in the water. But I also have seen what has happened to retrievers as they have gone from being hunting dogs to being primarily pet/show dogs. Labs have gotten huge in comparison to the square, blocky gun dogs I remember as a kid, and dogs who are now being selected for looks rather than hunting/working ability or long-term soundness would undoubtedly impact the gene pool. If you look at a modern lab, even at the proper weight it typically looks sort of massive. That has to be tough on its joints.
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