The Wall
Ace was bound to hit it sooner or later. His progress with adults (now including men) is going pretty well, and thanks to a very kind adolescent male, Ace is warming up to that category of humans as well.
But children. Oh, children. Well, he's taken a few steps backwards. A few days ago, a girl with whom Ace had never interacted joined the playgroup of the usual polite neighborhood kids. This girl was basically a hurricane of screaming and yelling and jumping and running. Ace was off-leash and sniffing around, minding his own business, when this kid leapt up from her position across the courtyard, and booked it right towards Ace, screeching. I'm pretty sure that if it had been towards me, I also would have ran off terrified.
I had to yell over the girl's screaming to be heard, and to tell her to calm down immediately because she was scaring Ace. She was selectively deaf at that moment, it seems, and hurtled towards Ace with renewed vigor. Ace ran in a huge arc back towards me, and I squatted down so I'd put myself between this crazy kid and him. I told her that Ace was quite spooked now, and that she should never approach a dog like that. After 10 minutes or so, Ace calmed down enough to start sniffing towards the group of kids. This girl saw him inching his way towards them, and she yelled, "OH GOD HE'S COMING FOR US!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Sooooo. Yeah. Ace is now pretty damn wary of kids, and I have to undo all the damage this crazy-ass kid did to him in 15 minutes' time. I didn't want to coddle Ace right after he came back to me. He seems to take coddling as an invitation to jump up on me and beg to be taken away. On the other hand, maybe I should have?
Anyway, now I'm at a loss for what to do. I went to the park today which was littered with small kids ranging from 3 to 10, and Ace did not try to sniff a single one. Previously, he was able to sniff at least the kids' shoes, if not a pant leg or two. How should I go about this pretty difficult task? I know he'll never LOVE kids. But I wish he could tolerate them.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Melissa and Franklin! on
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Unfortunately you probably have to start back at square one with kids you know and can trust not to be complete maniacs. It was good you didn't coddle him because that is essentially rewarding the fearful behavior. I have been through this with Franklin and dogs. He was mauled at the dog park by two large dogs and broke his foot. For over a year I slowly built up his confidence with strange dogs again and he was FINALLY to the point of happily greeting strange dogs and even initiating play, then one of my ARROGANT horrible teachers at school let her dog run into the classroom off leash even though we had told her Franklin was in there and nervous around strange dogs. Stupid idiot let her dog come charging in anyway and proceed to corner Franklin (who was on a leash) and jump on him and scare the daylights out of him. After that Franklin would hide behind me when a strange dog approached and now we have had to start from the beginning. Progress has gone a lot quicker this time, but still those 10 second brought back all his insecurities and doubts and we have had to work through them all over again. You can do it! You are so patient and persistent with him. Good luck!
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Permalink Reply by Ludi on
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Yeah, I figured. I am so desperate for him to socialize with kids, but my best "couple" friends are childless for the moment. All but one of my colleagues are childless as well, so it's almost impossible to find a kid "on demand". I really dislike when I see my dog experiencing setbacks because I feel like it's my fault. If I had seen this kid acting out earlier, I could have just hustled my butt back inside. But Ace really enjoys sniffing the perimeter of the courtyard, and it relaxes him before our walks, so I indulge him.
I'm glad that Franklin got over both incidents, but at least he worked through his fear issue. I have yet to see the light with Ace. I honestly don't know how far I can push him. I'm not sure if he will be as tolerant of kids as he has become with adults and adolescents. Right now with the latter, he's all the way up to lying at their feet and accepting scrubbing of the face and neck. It's pretty huge for a dog who was actively avoiding those types before. But with kids, where should I say, "Okay Ace, that's good enough"? Should he just tolerate their mere presence? Or do I need him to be able to handle being thoroughly pet by them?
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I'd say just start with him being tolerant of kids being around, not approaching or touching. You can build on that with them throwing him treats from a distance and approaching closer and closer over time. He may never allow a child to pet him, but with time he should be able to get used to their presence. Maybe you can walk by fenced parks where children are safely confined so none can rush up to him. Sit or stand outside the park and give him treats then move on. Have the time you stay near the park get longer and longer as he gets more comfortable. We have several of these types of parks around my area, not sure how common they are. At least if there is a fence separating Ace and the children you know they can't get too close and he can see that even the obnoxious shreaking kids can't hurt him. Even sitting at the other end of your courtyard when the normal group of kids is around (minus screaming girl) will be helpful to help him build his confidence again. I'd take it really slow with kids since they can be so unpredictable. Just teach him to tolerate being near them and if you can meet dog savy kids, then allow them to approach and/or pet in the future.
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Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on
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Our Doberman is a little afraid of children. I monitor her kid/dog greetings very carefully. I have her sit and tell the child they may pet her. She is getting pretty good about it but I do not go out of my way to have kids get after her. Her fear is based on when she was younger and lived with my son. My grandson crawled over and hugged her and then proceeded to bite her very hard. Fortunately her reaction was to jump up and run but it shows that children really do have to be watched carefully around dogs. Always err on the side of protecting your dog! It may take time and you actually having to tell a rowdy child not to behave that way and then removing your dog from a situation making him uncomfortable but in the long run it takes time to rebuild trust. In time he probably will learn to tolerate kids.
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Permalink Reply by Snickmom on
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Are there any parents watching their kids in the courtyard? If you could chat with them, perhaps you could arrange a private meet with a calm child. One child sitting on the ground tossing treats sounds pretty nice.
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Permalink Reply by Alison Prasavath on
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I hear you on the screaming kids that seem to want to chase the dog. We had a family living next door to us for 2.5 years with 5 little boys (under the age of 11) and the boys would constantly bark at Noodles and scream at him whenever we were outside. I just told Noods to ignore them and thankfully he did. Whenever the noise would start, Noodles would look at me and I would distract him with something else. That family is no longer living there (thank goodness), but I will say the new owners were quite curious as to why the dogs on either side of them were a bit nervous coming near that house. That is when I told them what the boys would do (thankfully they only threw toys over the fence a couple of times and my rule was, finders keepers, losers weepers, but they constantly threw things at Brandy.) The current owners purchased owner-approved dog treats as a way for Noodles and Brandy to get to know them and find out they are okay. I appreciated the effort all of them made and I can honestly say I love the neighbors on either side of me.
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Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on
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I like children as well as animals and I must say that I have found strange children generally cooperative when I have needed to train a dog. I had a young pup, around 4 month old, that had been raised with children. He became terrified of kids from one day to the next, for no apparent reason. He was born at my house, was sold, and I was keeping him until the new owners had settled into a new home. They had a child, so this new twist of events was a definite problem. I worked with him twice daily for about three weeks. We would walk towards the playground, which was 3 blocks from the house. As soon as he heard the children's noises ( one block from the house) he would display anxiety. We would stop at that point, stand there 5 minutes, during which time I offered a few treats, turn around and go back home. Over the days and weeks, he became anxious further and further away from the house, until we could make it to the edge of the playground and stay there 5 minutes before returning home. Our next step was to sit on a bench at one side of the playground. If children approached, I would immediately say " My dog is shy, could you come up one at a time and give him a treat ( no petting yet). As he looked forward to kids approaching, I added a pet from the child, if the child was calm enough. In 3 weeks he was fine with all children and went happily to his new home.
I have used similar techniques with young dogs (usually rescues) who did not like children, often for reasons unknown to me. Occasionally such a dog, even when over its fear or dislike, will not take to one particular child, but, for the most part, they have learned that children are good news, not a threat.
I would keep Ace on leash when there are children aroun, so you can be more in control of his immediate surroundings.
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I can definitely get access to a playground-type area (I am near a park where parents take their charges after school). My problem is that, I don't know if it's a cultural thing, but no one approaches Ace there with the idea to pet him. Either the kids run at him with the intention to scare him (I don't know why they think that's fine to do), or they avoid him entirely because I'm a stranger and "you don't talk to strangers". I hope I can convince some parents to eventually let their kids wander near Ace without actually touching him.
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All these thoughts you have about the children and the parents contribute to your expectations and to how it all plays out in the end. You don't have to convince anybody. Just sit there, relax and smile to anyone who approaches. Ask the children "Can you help my dog?" That will get their attention, then say he's shy, and tell them how much you love him and how you want him to know children are nice and like dogs and are so much fun to be around. Ask them if they have a dog, make friends with them yourself. Then have them offer a treat and talk softly to him. This image is probably foreign to how you think of the children now and therein lies the problem. Play it again and again in your mind until you can believe the words as you speak them - then there is an excellent chance that both the children and Ace will believe you too :-) Don't look for success, look for improvement and success will come.
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Okay that is fair. :) I will try to be a lot more open-minded. It is difficult to do at times when I am met with stony faces or just plain ignored. But I'll do it for Ace. :>
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Children can be like dogs (or is it the other way around?) Snickers would meet your approach with a stony face or turn her back on you if you tried to be friendly- or not, depending on her mood. Many children are out of control, like the unfortunate child your original post is about. This may not be their fault, there are many disorders that can cause behaviors like that. The girl is likely to have few, if any, friends, has trouble at school, and only if she is very fortunate, has parents who are trying to get her help. Other children do not realize running in a pack toward an animal would frighten it, they are still learning the rules of life. There are children who are terrified of dogs, others who have been taught stranger danger to a crippling degree. You have a great goal of getting the two together, and you can perhaps help some children along the way. If one child learns how to act around a dog, he will tell his friends and it will spread. But, Ace comes first!
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Ludi, It will also help the children, they too deserve to know how wonderful dogs are :-) Snickmom has it right.... so many emotionally needy children out there.
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