What is the chain of command in your home?
Those who have seen "It's Me Or the Dog" more than a couple times are probably familiar with this scene:
Victoria Stillwell meets a family with a problem dog. She observes the behavior, then sits the family down in front of a chart, on which she uses cut-out pictures to show the chain of command in the home. The first chart shows the family from the humans' point of view: Pictures of the smiling husband and wife at the top, then the kids (if there are any), then underneath that all the pets as more-or-less equal.
She then flips the chart and shows the ranking from the dog's point of view. Usually there is the dog, sitting at the top, proud as could be. The various humans are often scattered below. Frequently if the dog is a male, the female human of the family is right below him, as she is "his" human, and the husband and kids and sometimes other pets are away down at the bottom.
If Victoria Stillwell drew a chart of your family, how would it look?
I am amused and a tiny bit frustrated to say mine would not be quite as it should.
From the point of view of the dogs, my cat Alice is way at the tippy top, over everyone, a goddess-like figure to be feared, Supreme Ruler of the Universe. I have no problem with that as it keeps the cat safe and she actually sees me as outranking her, or at least whatever the cat equivalent of "rank" is.
From there things get a little more iffy.
I know I rank next from the point of view of all the critters. I am the one who trains them and works with them.
I have become increasingly sure that my Corgi Jack thinks he is my #2. He is very bossy with my husband. He barks at Shawn, demanding to play. When Shawn eats, Jack sits in front of him and shuffles his feet and grumbles. When Shawn walks him, Jack stops wherever he likes and marks as often as he likes and frequently decides which direction they will travel in.
With me, he's a totally different dog. He's s typical confident bossy Corgi and sometimes will talk back to me, but if he wants me to play he gets out his toys and tries to convince me how fun it is by rolling them around and growling at them. On a walk he will heel next to me on a loose leash. He'll argue sometimes about direction or stopping frequency, but in the end he gives in.
*sigh* I've tried to give Shawn some pointers on the whole dog-management thing, but I think it's a bit of a lost cause! LOL It's not a huge problem in that Jack is very well-behaved and we don't have any problems in the house with chewing or marking or fighting.
Maddie is content to be somewhere near the bottom as long as she gets lots of cuddles. She's an easy dog and I think a child could handle her. But Jack? Well, as I said, I think he sees himself as my second-in-command and faithful servant, and Shawn is that nice guy who plays with him and sometimes feeds him or gives him treats.
I can't be the only one in this situation! Anyone else have a well-behaved dog who runs roughshod over the other adults in the household?
Victoria Stillwell meets a family with a problem dog. She observes the behavior, then sits the family down in front of a chart, on which she uses cut-out pictures to show the chain of command in the home. The first chart shows the family from the humans' point of view: Pictures of the smiling husband and wife at the top, then the kids (if there are any), then underneath that all the pets as more-or-less equal.
She then flips the chart and shows the ranking from the dog's point of view. Usually there is the dog, sitting at the top, proud as could be. The various humans are often scattered below. Frequently if the dog is a male, the female human of the family is right below him, as she is "his" human, and the husband and kids and sometimes other pets are away down at the bottom.
If Victoria Stillwell drew a chart of your family, how would it look?
I am amused and a tiny bit frustrated to say mine would not be quite as it should.
From the point of view of the dogs, my cat Alice is way at the tippy top, over everyone, a goddess-like figure to be feared, Supreme Ruler of the Universe. I have no problem with that as it keeps the cat safe and she actually sees me as outranking her, or at least whatever the cat equivalent of "rank" is.
From there things get a little more iffy.
I know I rank next from the point of view of all the critters. I am the one who trains them and works with them.
I have become increasingly sure that my Corgi Jack thinks he is my #2. He is very bossy with my husband. He barks at Shawn, demanding to play. When Shawn eats, Jack sits in front of him and shuffles his feet and grumbles. When Shawn walks him, Jack stops wherever he likes and marks as often as he likes and frequently decides which direction they will travel in.
With me, he's a totally different dog. He's s typical confident bossy Corgi and sometimes will talk back to me, but if he wants me to play he gets out his toys and tries to convince me how fun it is by rolling them around and growling at them. On a walk he will heel next to me on a loose leash. He'll argue sometimes about direction or stopping frequency, but in the end he gives in.
*sigh* I've tried to give Shawn some pointers on the whole dog-management thing, but I think it's a bit of a lost cause! LOL It's not a huge problem in that Jack is very well-behaved and we don't have any problems in the house with chewing or marking or fighting.
Maddie is content to be somewhere near the bottom as long as she gets lots of cuddles. She's an easy dog and I think a child could handle her. But Jack? Well, as I said, I think he sees himself as my second-in-command and faithful servant, and Shawn is that nice guy who plays with him and sometimes feeds him or gives him treats.
I can't be the only one in this situation! Anyone else have a well-behaved dog who runs roughshod over the other adults in the household?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Sky and Lyla on
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HAHA! I was totally going to say I was at the top, until you said the thing about the cat. My cat is definitely at the top! She gets fed first (because she's so persistent from the moment I wake up), she has free reign around the house to do whatever she wants, she alone has the permission to jump on and off furniture at will, and anytime she wants my attention she just plops herself into my lap. The pups even allow the cat to come sniff their toys. Even the food stuffed toys! If the other dog were to do the same thing, they would quickly get a growl or a snap.
After the cat I think its me. At least most of the time I do. There are days I wonder were my sweet obedient puppies went and who put these little brats in my house. For the most part, especially if they are not in a super exciting situation, the dogs will both listen to me and they know that they have to act nicely if they want good things from me. They are not food or resource aggressive towards me because they know that I have the right to take whatever I want whenever I want it. Sky does tend to crowd me when I'm eating on the couch, but that is totally my fault for throwing him food every once in a while. :/ When I tell him to back off though he does.
As far as the dogs, I can't ever decide who is in charge. I think it's probably Lyla, but I'm not totally sure. She has no problem going over to Sky's bed and just plopping down, even when he's on it. She'll take toys from him, and if food does get dropped on the floor, she'll shove his nose out of the way so she can eat it. However, if she trys to take a toy that Sky is really into, he has no problem snapping at her and then she backs off immediately. When meeting new dogs, Sky is usually outgoing and playful, while Lyla is the flip on her back and pee kind of dog. So, I'm just not positive. I'd love people's opinions on the dogs. They get along just great, so I don't worry too much about it, but I don't want to inadvertantly cause problems by showing favors to the lower dog.
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P.S. I love "It's Me or the Dog!" Victoria is my favorite. I often think that I have friends I'd like to send her to!!
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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I think when you have two dogs, one of each sex, it's harder to see their rank. The boys often seem to let the girls get away with a whole lot of stuff, but that doesn't necessarily mean the female is really outranking him. And Lyla is still a puppy; most adults tolerate a lot from pups. And to compound it, we teach our dogs to behave in a certain way (not guarding toys, for example) that goes against the natural order.
I taught Jack to "leave it" playing tug, and since then he will never really tug. So if he has a dangly toy and Maddie grabs the end and gives one good pull, he lets go then looks surprised and barks. She has also learned how to trick him out of his bones by rolling around or snuffling right next to him, and when he looks over to see what she's doing, she'll sneak in and grab it (I actually stop this behavior and take the bones and give them back to whoever started with them).
However, she will walk around Jack whereas he will just sort of barge through if she's in the way. If she's on a couch that he wants to sleep on, he'll hop up next to her and slowly sprawl out more and more until she hops down. And I once saw something that seemed to me to be a very clear rank indicator; they were on a field-length outdoor recall and both running towards me full-speed. They were basically tied and Jack seemed not to like that so he half-turned and budged her in the shoulder. She immediately gave up and dropped back so he got to me first.
Dogs don't care about all things equally (some higher-ranking dogs might not care less who gets through a door first, for example). I think the key is to watch their interactions when there is something involved that they BOTH see as high-value (a toy, a sleeping spot). Who wins then?
But again, with one male and one female they don't seem so concerned about is as two of the same sex might be.
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Oh, and I forgot the add the most obvious: when they play-wrestle, Maddie generally spends a good part of the time lying on her back, showing her belly. LOL
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Permalink Reply by Avyon on
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I love those shows! While some ideas I ignore I still get good pointers on certain things.
My chart would go -
Me
Dad
Roxi
Charlie
Roomy 1
Roomy 2
Visitors.
I understand your frustration. With my roommates its like "Well if you want the dog to listen to you..." but of course because its not their dog they tend to be very lax with them. Though the pups are trained pretty well its not really an issue just little things like tricks and sometimes behaviors.
Especially at night I close the door to my room with the kids with me just because every now and then I wonder what my roomies do with my pups when I'm asleep/not home. They admitted to doing stuff with the last roomies dog after the roomy said don't do it because they felt they knew better. Not in a horrible way (they're great roommates but sometimes they just don't think things through..) The last person was a nurse and got a dog (admittedly again - she should have not had a dog in her position) when she left she had to lock him in the kitchen (lab mix rescue). After a while the roomys while the owner was away leave the kitchen open when they went out themselves every now and then to see if the dog would behave. Which he did - but still they did it without asking the owner herself or let her know about it at all.
The reason I'm at the top is just because I spend more time with them then Dad. I do more with them while Im at home instead of just sit and play games and pet them once in a while lol. He does things like clip their nails and walk them when its his turn but I take time out of my day to teach them new tricks and play with them in turn. I also sign up for things like agility and make plans with my other corgi owner friends and he just tags along. I also take them to work with me which helps a lot with the roomy issue.
And its not like he's a bad owner - he's just more relaxed with the "Its just a dog." sorta feel. Where at a certain level I do feel of them as human but at the same time I take up the alpha role. I think thats mostly because up till halfway through highschool I actually studied and wanted to work with wolves lol. I camped out in a wolf reserve and was allllll set to become one of the researchers/people who breed/let them into the wild. Oh well. I know some people poo-poo against the alpha tier idea but its worked so far for us and I think different things work for different people. Its a personal opinion.
Of course in a perfect world I would have a job where we could afford a place of our own with a backyard and large windows that the dogs could look out of :) Sigh... someday.
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Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on
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Other than the cat you have described my house perfectly. I am in charge but Sparty will occasionally need to be reminded! Both of my cats were adult rescues so they do not seem particularly dominant. Possibly because they spent several months kenneled while waiting for a family. The dogs all know the cats are off limits unless the cat wants to play or snuggle. Since they are all 4 claws declawed (I had never heard of doing that before!) I am very strict about the interactions. My wonderful husband has no interest whatsoever in learning anything about training although he does like to play with them and teach them tricks. He prefers to cuddle and feed them table scraps! Izzy is a very easy dog that will do anything for approval and Misty is pretty submissive for such a big dog (she just tends to be a space cadet sometimes). Sparty is the one we need the Pet Psychic for!
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Yes, I have pretty much given up on my husband! Perfect example: If Shawn is emptying the trash, Jack (and Maddie) will crowd around him. Now, Jack knows "leave it" and he also will back up with just a single hand signal. Shawn knows the dog understands these commands, and will have him do all his commands in a row for a treat. Yet, when he wants the dog to get away from the garbage, does he ask the dog the command he knows? No-oh, that would be too easy! LOL. He makes weird "Tschs" sounds at the dog, and I will say "What are you DOING?" while Jack eyes him up suspiciously. And I say "The dog understands words, you know" and Jack and I look at each other and sigh. LOL
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LOL. My husband constantly changes the commands and then can't figure out why they don't listen. He has done obedience classes with me but just does not have the feel for it. He owns his own business so my theory is that he is so used to everybody going what he tells them (except me) that he forgets that sometimes he has to work at it to get compliance!
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Permalink Reply by Sarah C. on
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My parents do this too. It's "Down" go "potty" and "sit" And for some reason they're like. Lay. Lie. siddown. laydown. go peepee, go tee-tee. These are all words that they do not know!
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I love my parents very much, and am grateful that we always had a house full of pets while I was growing up (rabbits, birds, gerbils, dogs, etc). But my mom..... When I go there to visit on Sunday, I can't help but notice she still does it: she gives their dog a speech. "Molly, WHAT are you doing? Would you get out of my way! Geez, I can't even move around without you getting under my feet. And please stop barking...." The dog stares at her blankly and waves her tail. LOL
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lol! My dad does this too! He asks her things. Didi, Why are you in my way? Didi, why won't you get the ball? Didi, What are you barking at? The funniest thing is question-sentences make her look at you and tilt her head so she's forever stopping and look at him like, what's that now?
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Bev, my poor husband is forbidden to practice a new command with either dog til they have gotten the command down pat, because of his timing being off! LOL He'll reward too soon or correct too late. I plan on going to CGC classes with him and Maddie once we get her basic commands under control. Should be interesting. She's a much less intense dog than Jack, which makes it easier. Jack will accidentally pick up the wrong meaning really quick if you let him; he makes quick associations and if you are not careful he'll work out his own meaning for things, which is not necessarily what you had in mind. Maddie's a little slower on the uptake, which also means she's less likely to misinterpret something.
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