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Comment by Momo Taro Lundgren & Mommy pk on November 26, 2012 at 11:12am

@JANE CHRISTENSEN : yes.... We do the yelps (prior to learning the new 'discipline' techiques) and that is a 50/50 % chance that it works and fails.  If he really gets into his play mode and his VERY HYPER... it does not work.  But if he's still in his fun light play mode, it does and he will stop and walk away.  But when he continues the nipping and pulling at our clothes ... even after we yelp "OUCH!!!" then we have started to apply the auto time out (after we learned of it). 

Now that he is MORE well behaved, we don't necessarily throw him immedidately into time out if he understands our "NO" or "yelps" and we give him the silent still treatment.  Only if he become insistent and continues it and the actual act of "timeout" is for his very BAD behavior consequence.  It has come to just us saying "timeout?" and he'll stop whatever he is doing, if we don't like it.  A smart dog indeed he is, as he learned TIMEOUT means away from playing, treats, fun time, belly rubs, toys, and especially "mom and dad" time.

TO US, as how i envision my training of him is, we show him through our actions and not necessarily really our "words".   We train him that certain words mean a certain action and if he doesn't stop THIS BAD BEHAVIOR, then we'll stop him FOR YOUR his own good.

 

What if he continues this behavior with children who don't like this and gets VERY PHYSICAL with him or hits him with hard objects or if he does this with other LARGER dogs?  He may get very hurt.  So what we are teaching him is, "if he does not stop when que words are used, then timeout is far better for him than THE OTHER consequences he may get out in public." 

 

And for our own sake as his owners, if people reports him as a violent rabid dog... for his 'biting' behavior, we could lose him.... and i don't think i could let him go willingly. :(

Comment by Jane Christensen on November 26, 2012 at 10:48am

When he bites...do you yell "owe" and turn away from him...absolutely NO attention  or eye contact for the behavior??? This has worked 100% of the time for my corgis...you can smile or laugh to yourself but NO attention to him...

Comment by Momo Taro Lundgren & Mommy pk on November 26, 2012 at 10:00am

Wow... didn't think anyone would actually read what i wrote. <3

Thanks for all your inputs.  I just follow the above of what I wrote, due to the fact that i've seen what can happen, when dogs don't have limitations, rules, boundaries, and have in fact, stepped up to be the pack leader of a family and they are literally running the house hold.

It's quite sad... and i've seen my lil puppy do it to myself and my husband, when we slacked off on the strict rules after we had him for a few weeks and got a lil "hell hound" who was nipping, biting (quite hard to the point i was punctured and bled), barking and very demanding. 

But once we established that we were the leaders in the house hold, through certain training techiques I had learned and studied very hard... and applied it to him, his behaviors CHANGED 180.  Time outs, were one of the behaviors that we had to apply to him, without utilizing what a real "animal pack leader" would do when a dog/puppy gets out of hand, which would be to "bite" it.

Of course, we give him lots of praises, rewards, treats, and affections and such when he does what he is told or what we ask of him.  We both know he's still a puppy and still in the learning stages... which is why I believe that we must WORK HARD and be consistent and apply the rules of the pack to him, so it is fully established when he reaches adulthood and will not step out of boundaries when he fully knows what is expected of him as a full grown dog.  He should have realized what is CORRECT behaviors and what is INCORRECT behaviors by the time he is adult age (2+ years old).  Of course, we'll continually be training him always and making sure he doesn't FORGET the rules, but i do believe that when he reaches maturity, he should have basic understanding what is right and wrong behaviors around us.

For us, we TIME HIM OUT in his kennel for bad behaviors, and what we say is bad behaviors is : continued nipping, biting, pulling on clothing (when he's been told to NO or STOP),  barking (insistently when we have checked out the "danger" and have given him the que words that means "there is no danger, you must stop" and he knows what the que words are at this point", or when we tell him to stay off of people/No jumping, or any behavior that you wouldn't allow a large dog to do to people, we make sure to nip it in the bud as a puppy.

Of course, we make sure he understand what is time out, and what is normal SLEEP time with the kennel.  He understands it now.  Even tho we use the same kennel he sleeps in as his time out, he still goes into his kennel at night when it's time to sleep willingly.  He gets praises and treats when he goes to sleep willingly, and of course when he gets time out, he usually knows that he did something wrong and tends to "fight" going into time out.  We are quiet and silent while taking him to time out and the only thing that is said is, "TIME OUT" WHICH he knows what it means now, hence his 'fighting' towards the kennel cuz he doesn't want to be separated from us.

For example now, he'll automatically get into a submissive mode (lay down on his side silently) when he knows he's nipped me hard (be it by accident or intentially while playing) because we have been teaching him NOW since about 13 weeks, that he is NOT ALLOWED to put his teeth on people.  If he does, it's an AUTOMATIC time out in kennel.  We don't expect him to be a guard dog... it's our job to protect our home.  So we have no need to have him 'use his teeth on people'.  The only time he's allowed to use his teeth... is when WE INTIATE him to use his teeth by us sticking our hands in his mouth for his bite inhibitation training, to make sure he has a soft mouthing.  Which is working very well for us.    

I hope you all don't think that i don't praise my puppy... LOL.  We do.  We make sure he understands when he has done very well... and when he has done very bad.  We don't let him get away with much, if we catch him in the act of doing something "bad".  He'll know as well... if he has.  He'll just lay down or walk away if he knows we are displeased with his action while in Play mode with us (biting or growling-dominantly over a toy).  Which i think is a win-win situation.  He understands what is acceptable behaviors and what isn't... and I'm very happy that he has learned this early on... and not later in life, when he's an adult and already has a certain mentality instilled in him that will take some time to change.  (like a certain family dog that i know of... and sadly, my family has come to me to ask me for help to change their dog, into an obediant well behaved dog, that wont drag them on walks, or nip the children while they are playing AWAY from the dog, or be dominating towards their YOUNG children.  If they *as dog owners* can recongize the way my puppy behaves compared to their almost two year old dog that they've own for nearly two years, i think... i'm doing a great job. <3 ) 

Thank you all... for responding! I love feed back!

Comment by Jane Christensen on November 26, 2012 at 8:39am

Is he getting positive reinforcement for when he is doing the "right" thing?

Comment by Jane Christensen on November 26, 2012 at 8:38am

Agree with Bev and Beth...also "trade up" if it's something they have and shouldn't..meaning if he has something he shouldn't give him a toy he can and "trade" it so he learns what he can have. Sometimes just kenneling may have a negative effect and they need to have a "cause and affect" so that they can figure it out. I tell my dogs to "kennel up" but they know why...such as barking.

What was he  kenneled for?

Comment by Tomi and Story on November 24, 2012 at 7:15pm

I completely agree with Beth and Bev, clear and consistent boundaries, redirection, rewards and lots of positive reinforcement!

Comment by Bev Levy on November 24, 2012 at 1:40pm

As with children, the best training occurs when you reward the behavior you want. That is all I would add to your comments. Let your puppy know as often as possible when he does what you want! 

Comment by Beth on November 24, 2012 at 11:58am

I agree with you almost completely but I would put it a little differently.  For some reason it has crept into the common wisdom that most dogs really WANT to be pack leader and will fill that role given half the chance.  That is not really true; dogs have been selectively bred to be biddable and submissive to people (or at least most of them have).  

I prefer to think of it as "setting boundaries."   When a two-year-old child acts out, no one says "Oh, he is trying to be the leader" or "He thinks he's the boss."   When a dog acts out, though, that tends to be the line of thinking and I think it can interfere a bit with how we manage situations (because it sets up a dynamic of "Us against the dog.).

So if you replace the words "setting boundaries" with "discipline" then I will agree with you completely!  :-) 

Comment by Ludi on November 24, 2012 at 11:40am

A well-trained dog is ultimately, the happier dog. He is allowed free time more often, the run of the house, able to go off-leash in the appropriate setting, and avoids being put into time-out. A little bit of training in the beginning sets him up for success in the future. :-) I totally agree with your sentiments!