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Comment by Ace and Jen on November 13, 2011 at 5:08pm

Reasons for me mentioning the dog park thing is that here where i live there are dog snobs.. and i do mean SNOBS.. a gentleman with his Sharpei.. she gets by with whatever she wants.. she rolled an obese bulldog onto his back and had him pinned viscously.. but the moment Scrappy or my friends Pitty girl Kikio start running with the other dogs happily people are like OH MY GOD they are gonna kill my baby... it just frustrates me.. i myself am NOT a pittbull breeder but my brother was.. he says he will NEVER own a red nose.. because out of all the pittbulls.. red noses seem to be the ones that are 'hot rods' as he says .. they tend to have the agressive nature more then others.. and he did ALOT of research before he got scrappy and before he started studding him out.. but I myself AM a dog entusiast.. i LOVE dogs.. and i did ALOT of research on the breed because before Ace i wanted to get a Pittbull puppy from scrappys breedings.. and i KNOW they were bred for fighting other dogs.. but the thing that irritates me most is how automatically people think they are killers.. I hate to say it but Ace is more likely to bite someone or another dog and draw blood then Scrappy is .. I guess my Biggest thing is.. i take the time to ask people if their dog is friendly then assuming it is a viscous creature.. i wish people would take the time and learn about the animal themselves and NOT assume they are what people say they are... I know Wheeler (jack russel) is the sweetest thing and i would trust Ace and him alone but Marley (jack russel) I would NOT leave Ace alone with.. i admit i DO know what its like to be around a Pitt i dont trust.. Luke was another Pitt my brother had.. he was a Pitt Mix.. and he had some agression issues.. so im not saying ALL pittbulls or mixes are great pets.. but i am saying that people need to stop and take the time to see the animals personality and see how they are versus assuming.. and i absolutely HATE how some animal shelters or humaine societies automatically put a dog down because they were pittbull.. or they had been faught.. yes i know that there is the CHANCE the dog could be dog agressive but  there is also the chance that they arnt and that they really only did it because they were forced.. Just look at the Michael Vicks dogs.. If i remember right only 2 had to be put down.. and one was because she was so old.. the rest went on to better homes and were rehabilitated.. one is even a therapy dog.. I just i dunno im just so frustrated with the hate thats going on towards Pitties it breaks my heart... i guess i am to much of a softy or something i dont know but .. i just wish there was a way i could educate people about how much of a wonderful breed they are.. lol

I also dont want people to think Ace is a bad dog because of the things i said.. Ace is a wonderful Gentle guy but when it comes to play Ace is a little more agressive and he uses hsi mouth more.. where as Scrappy just uses his paws and boxes he wont even put his mouth near flesh and acts like you are going to murder him if you put your hands in his mouth.. 

Comment by Mal Schaal on November 13, 2011 at 2:31pm

Go Beth!
I don't worry so much about what individuals think of certain breeds. What really gets me mad is when apartments, sub-divisions, military housing, or even city's restrict the type of dog you can own. Or that the animal shelters here automatically kill the Pits with no regard to tempermant.

Comment by Melissa and Franklin! on November 13, 2011 at 12:32pm

I agree that pitt bulls tend to be incredibly sweet dogs, but I have seen several who were not good around other dogs. I think the fact that there is SO MUCH breed prejudice causes the same breed prejudice FOR the breed. People who love pitbulls begin to ignore what they were bred for and the fact that they are in fact TERRIERS. Terriers as a breed are prey driven, can be stubborn, can be aggressive. In the right hands they can also be awesome companions, but owners of terriers just have to keep in mind what they were bred for and train them accordingly.

I do love pits, and have met a lot of incredibly sweet pits. Two of Franklin's best buddies are pit mixes, one a pit husky and one a pit shepherd. The pit/shepherd can be aggressive and unpredictable, but he is  my best friend's dog so its not like I can never be around him. Franklin has learned to read his moods and we just never leave the two together unsupervised. Even though I know many loving pits, I can't ignore the fact that I have seen on two separate occasions pits attacking and killing small dogs unprovoked. I witnessed a pitbull jump out of a truck window and attack and kill a small poodle an elderly woman was walking down the street. I also witnessed two pitbulls attack a jack russel at the dog park causing such severe damage to his spine that he had to be euthanized. I work as a large animal tech and can't tell you how many mini horses, goats, and sheep have been attacked and killed or seriously injured by pit bulls. I've never seen another breed of dog do this. I've seen other attacks by other breeds but never with the same level of damage and never resulting in death.

The way I react with Franklin around ANY large dog is to protect him first, make sure the dog isn't going to eat him, and then allow him to play. This goes for all dogs, not just pits. I am probably more prejudice at dog parks about huskies and german shepherds than pits. I've owned several shepherds growing up, so understand how frustrating it is when people cross the street when you walk by, or people automatically trying to blame your dog of another dog runs up and attacks it and it's just defending itself, etc. The problem with pits is we haven't gotten rid of dog fighting so a majority of pit owners are irresponsible people who just want them for fighting. Too many are being bred to be aggressive and the breed as a whole has suffered because of this. We have 4 pit bulls in my vet tech program right now that we are training and putting up for adoption and I can't tell you how many people have asked me, while I walk them around campus,  if they can adopt them unspayed and then proceed to talk about how great they would be for fighting. In fact, it is very likely that 3 of the pups were bait dogs, as they were covered in bite marks around the front legs, shoulders, and head, and one is even missing some toes. Its all very sad, and I don't believe in breed prejudice and breed specific legislation, but I also do think you have to know the breed, know what it was bred for, and respect that.

Comment by Beth on November 13, 2011 at 12:00pm

The end of my long comment got cut off.  I was just finishing by saying dog-lovers do not avoid pits at the dog park out of human stupidity.  They do so out of respect for what pits were bred to do.  It doesn't mean they hate your dog.  Many of those same people, if you met them at PetSmart with your leashed Scrappy, would go right up to her and give her a big fussing.   I know I do, all the time.  Still won't let my dogs play at the dog-park with a strange pit bull, though.  

Comment by Beth on November 13, 2011 at 11:56am

My aunt has had JR Terriers for years.   Great little dogs, I love them.  She had 2 for the longest time.  One was getting old and someone had a JR that they needed to rehome.  We asked her and she said she'd never have 3 at once because, several times, she has seen two gang up on a third and kill it, especially if the third was sick, even if all had gotten along fine and known each other for years.   She loves JR's and that is not breed prejudice, it's knowing your breed.  She also says matter-of-factly that they can be cat killers.

***********

If you had a pet rabbit, I would trust one of my Corgis with it under the most careful of supervision.  The other I wouldn't even if I was standing right there.  Her prey drive is extremely high, and I respect my dogs' heritage as vermin dogs even though they have been bred as show dogs and pets for generations.  The drive is still there, breeding tells.

**********

When we brought home our new kitten, I would lock her in a bedroom whenever we'd leave the house til she was about 6 or 7 months old and had put on some weight.  I didn't want to come home to a dead kitten, nor deal with the after-effects of looking at my dogs every day knowing they'd killed a beloved pet.  Corgis are usually ok with cats if raised with cats, but sometimes they chased her with a gleam in their eye, and, well, see above.  I trust them with any cat I would bring into the house and call a pet, but not until they'd had time to recognize she was staying and not an intruder.  I would not trust them with a stray cat in the yard.  See above about being vermin dogs.   Loving purebreds means, in part, respecting what they were bred to do.  Beagles chase rabbits til their paws bleed if you let them.   Border collies will stalk anything that moves.  Baby setter pups will set butterflies, songbirds, and all manner of fluttering things. 

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We have a dog group that meets and plays off-leash in a big park nearby.  The core of the group stays the same.  I've seen other dogs come and go.  On several occasions, people have brought pit-type pups to play.  They play great when they are babies.  When they are 6 months old.  When they are a year old.  More often than not, when they hit around 18 months they start to get a little funny and they stop coming around.

 

Pit bulls were bred for generations to fight other dogs.  They needed to be sweet with people so that handlers could work on an injured dog.  But they were selected to see other dogs as game.  They can play well with dogs they know, but they are more likely than non-bred dogs to have a short fuse with other dogs.  They are more likely than non-bred dogs to ignore another dog's surrender signal.  And like other terriers, they have NOT had the kill drive bred out of them, regarding other animals.

 

Every pit bull fancy I have ever looked into says emphatically that pit bulls are not good dogs for dog parks.  The saying goes that they might not start the fight, but they will finish it.  Most dog fights are a lot of noise and not much else, but some dogs (like terriers) are more inclined than others to actually engage and do damage.  The thing is, my dogs can hold their own with a 15 pound fox terrier if things go south.  They can't hold their own with a 45-pound pit if the same happens. 

 

You're darned right I keep my dogs away from pit bulls at the dog park.  It's not breed prejudice.  It's respecting selective breeding.  If I want a dog to trail rabbits, I'm getting a beagle--- not a poodle.  If I want a dog to bring things back to me for hours, I want a lab, not a Corgi.  If I want a dog to stalk sheep, I'll get a border collie, not a Chow.  If I want a dog to guard my house, I'll get a Dobie, not a pit bull.  And if I want a dog who is great and steady with people but inclined to not be a dog-park dog, I'll get that pit.  

 

It is NOT because of human st

Comment by Bev Levy on November 13, 2011 at 11:05am

I know what you are saying as I have a doberman as well as my two corgis. Walking the corgis brings many people over to say Hi but the dobe causes many to cross the street to avoid us. However, I recognize that Misty (if she wanted too) could do a lot more damage just as a pittbull could. Unfortunately my experience is that sadly most dog owners are pretty lazy about training and think they can get away with no training even with breeds that really need it. I have been around pitts that are great but still proceed with caution when around any strange dog. I agree that it is the people at fault and wish our justice system was more focused  on people that have dangerous dogs and was less so on breeds as a whole.

Comment by Muriel Wuethrich on November 13, 2011 at 10:47am

OK...so before starting my comment, I read everything that everyone wrote.  We're (me included) are all saying the same thing, including Scrappy's owner.  It is NOT the breed that is bad, it's the bad owners.  The breed has a stigma of fighting and being viscous, thinking that maybe the word Pitt in it's name is reflective of Pitt fights.  It is true that Pittbulls a more agressive breed.  Imagine if you would for just a moment, a poodle pit fight, I don't think so.  The breed also has a locking jaw of some kind that once the dog grabs onto an object it can hold onto it differently then any other breed and NOT let go.  So I do believe that it's all about how the dog is raised.  With love and kindness it will end up being like every other tail wagging family member.  But in the wrong hands (just what everyone on this site has been saying all along) the dog will become a threat to everyone and everything within it's reach.  I feel that to be objective, a person, who ever you are pit owner or not, should realistically look

at ALL sides concerning this subject matter.

Comment by Jane Christensen on November 13, 2011 at 8:06am

 I have to agree that it's people that have given these dogs a bad name. We have a humane society near us that has so many pitbulls it's very sad. The main woman there gets so frustrated...recently she had to put a beautiful pit down because his master died and the family started teaching the dog to grab at people's arms. I have let one of my pups go to a home with a pit. they got along very well BUT he was well trained. I have also seen idiots who have young dogs buy prong collars(which in the right environment are good) but all I could imagine was this poor dog not getting trained but using this to control him:(  Unfortunately  we don't have a way of knowing what the dog is like.

Comment by Ellen Andersen on November 13, 2011 at 7:51am

It's unfortunate that some nasty poor excuses for human beings have created the image that pibbles are monster dogs.  And yes, a pibble that's been trained to be nasty might very well be nasty, just like other breeds that have had the same stigma (rotties, dobies, etc).  And there have been horrific instance of pibbles being the main contender in attacks (but so have so many other breeds).  This stigma attached to pibbles is the fault of the <insert word here pertaining to a human hind end orifice> who have trained them and made dog fighting such a popular 'sport'.

I haven't yet met a nasty pibble.  Yes, there are some out there but it's the fault of the idiots who raised them.  It's a crime, in my mind, that such a stigma has been attached to these dogs that so many people are deathly afraid of them and the knee-jerk political responses to this is inane legistlation against such a wonderful breed of dog. 

Comment by Ace and Jen on November 13, 2011 at 2:35am

Exacgtly... it just irritates me.. Scrappy is to lazy to be vicous LOL

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