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Permalink Reply by Cindy on May 11, 2011 at 3:29pm

I can't agree with you more!  I'm the past president of an all breed club, currently sit on the BOD as the treasurer and am in my 5th year as a show chair for a huge 4 day cluster show.

We have this discussion at all our meetings and you get all the replies.  So many want to be purests and it has to be purebreds only.  Then those that think that we are only about conformation and leave the club as they are now agility people.  Or those that are short, curt and impolite to those that ask questions. Because of legislation and local rules, we have to watch how we act, advertise information and provide breeder referrals.  It's really a mess.

My personal phone rings off the hook the week before the show-I list it as the contact for the show in local advertising.  I get no reimbursement for it's use.  People want to know what's happening, how to attend, can they bring their dog, etc.  We encourage people to attend, though leave their personal dogs at home(AKC has some show rules about that).  We explain how to talk to a person showing and I do explain that sometimes people are in a hurry and might not be as nice as they could and have a lot of other stuff on their minds.

 

BUT....you find that in every venue-dogs, kids, people, crafts, hobbies, etc.  Don't lump us all in the same category as the rude ones.  I could say the same thing about the people who show horses(which we show drafts), cats, pigeons, art dealers, rock hounds and race car drivers, you name it, you can show it, display it, compete wtih it, there will be the rotten eggs. 

I think the key here is that don't get discouraged but remember that a lot of these people have"been there, done that, heard that" and might not be as open and willing as others.  And the part that I want to point out is that this society seems to have created a I want it so I deserve and demand it attitude.  Most often that won't fly with a reputable breeder who's best interest is the preservation of the special qualities of that breed vs selling you a show dog just so you can show.

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Permalink Reply by Beth on May 11, 2011 at 9:49pm

Oh, and I agree that there are many wonderful dog people out there in the show world who will take all the time they can manage to give to help out people who are interested!  At the particular event I'm referring to, when I asked about letting people know they were having the show, they mumbled that it was listed on their website.  Honestly I don't spend much time checking in on my county kennel club's website, so that's why I got the impression that they really only cared about notifying people who were already in the loop, so to speak.

 

With horses, there is a way "in"--- you take lessons from a show barn and there you go, foot in door.   WIth conformation shows/dog-breeding, it seems it can be very, very tough to break in.  Some established breeders will place dogs in co-ownerships and then once the bitch finishes and has her litter you can put your kennel name on any pups you keep back.   Which is great for people whose personalities are well-suited for those sorts of relationships.  But the fact is not everyone wants to tie themselves to someone else for years to get started.  

 

I dunno, it seems like we need more responsible breeders, not fewer.   But it does seem hard (at least in some breeds) to start out.   As you say, though, personalities are very different and I think that if I ever wanted to get into the more serious end of dog handling/showing/breeding I know of a few people who would be approachable on that subject.   

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Permalink Reply by Chris West on May 11, 2011 at 4:26pm

Thanks for all the replies everybody!!  Just wanted to answer a couple of questions...

 

#1 - The breeders that have told me I need to have owned a show dog meant I "need to have OWNED a show dog."  That being the problem.... how do you get one if you have to own one first??  I am currently trying to do as much as possible for showing.  I have been attending shows for over a year now, have helped out and actually shown a couple of dogs, joined the CWCCA, and also joined the local AKC club.  I try to talk to as many breeders as I can at the shows (without being pesty, cause I know they are busy!).  Have managed to visit some breeders that don't live too far from me.  Some of them have been super nice!

 

#2 - I have tried to always point out that I am willing to wait 5-10 years if I have to for the right puppy with the color, personality, gender, confirmation I am looking for to come along.  I keep running into to "I don't want to have to worry about remembering you want a certain kind of puppy.  I have this puppy, right now, and if you don't take it then I am mad at you because you don't think my puppies are good enough!"  Which is NOT what I think, I just feel strongly that a dog is something I have for 10-20 years and I don't want just whatever you have lying around waiting for a buyer!  As for breeding issues, I have expressed that I have no desire to breed in the current future and would be more than willing to sign any contract with stipulations about breeding.  My preference for a male is based on my distaste for owning an intact female and my preference for the personality that males seem to have compared to females.  Coat color is important to me only in the fact that blue merle is one of my favorite things about cardigans.  I am willing to take almost any color if it has great confirmation and personality (except for black and whites, I think they don't look as corgi as the other colors, just personal preference).  I don't say I refuse to take a different color, just that I would PREFER a blue, and then the breeder gets all huffy and doesn't want to talk to me anymore.

 

#3 - Thanks Cindy, I guess I never really thought about being a spy!  I just always want to ask a lot of questions so I know what to be ready for when pup comes home, if I am the kind of buyer they are looking for, and what they expect from me, etc.  Maybe I should take my questions list and separate it into meeting #1 questions, meeting #2 questions, etc.

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Permalink Reply by Suzi, Zeus & Valentine on May 11, 2011 at 7:09pm

I think you should be able to get exactly what you want. (this is a forever friend) I was very picky when choosing my baby zeus, I asked a million questions and was picky on what I wanted also i also wanted a blue merle (male) and I got zeus he is absolutely the best puppy i could have asked for :) such a smart breed and very very easy going. I wish u luck :) 

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Permalink Reply by Melissa and Franklin! on May 11, 2011 at 9:11pm

I agree that you should be able to ask for exactly the dog you want, its not just a show dog it is a family member and it should show the breeder how dedicated you are to the dog that you don't want whatever they have lying around. I researched and waited for 7 months before I got Franklin. I wanted a male, I wanted a tri, my breeder was very patient with me and answered ALL my questions and encouraged more questions even if I wasn't going to buy from her. One thing you may consider is a smaller scale breeder. Someone who has one or two bitches and a stud that are all actively showing. It seems to me they are less overwhelmed with everything and have more time to answer your questions and usually have less stipulations for the dogs they place, yet often still have VERY good quality dogs. In January I was planning to bring home a second corgi, bought a female from a small time breeder (she only has one male and one female both champions with champion lines). The female was show quality and I took her for a few days but it didn't work out. Now in her new home she has been to several shows and received best in show. Just a thought as a way to get your foot in the door and "own a show dog". Another option may be competing your current dog. You could consider agility or rally or obedience. That way you can maybe be considered as having the required "show" experience? I understand from a breeders point of view not wanting to sell a show dog strictly because there is no spay/neuter contract and therefore they have no way of knowing if you are doing any backyard breeding. I guess the best thing to do is try to find local breeders and weasel your way into their lives and establishments so they get to know you and know you aren't a backyard breeder or a puppy mill. Its really hard to prove to a stranger that you really are a good person!

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Permalink Reply by Beth on May 11, 2011 at 9:53pm

I would think that someone who's titled a dog would have an easier time getting a dog to compete in conformation, but I could be wrong. 

I don't think it's too difficult to title in Rally.

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Permalink Reply by Chris West on May 11, 2011 at 10:06pm

I have been looking into getting Frosty titled in Obedience or Rally.  The only problem is there is nowhere near us that has classes etc to get ready for those kind of events.  I am planning to focus this year on getting in good with my local club and trying to get to more confirmation shows.  I am hoping to spend most of next year attending more rally/obedience events and figuring out what needs done for those.  I have read the rules online, but they seem really confusing!

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Permalink Reply by Beth on May 11, 2011 at 10:27pm

You need a Rally trainer to learn Rally, I agree.

The signs are NOT self-explanatory!   LOL

 

Are you interested in breeding?  The reason I ask is that really in principal, conformation shows are meant to be an evaluation of breeding stock, and usually when people want to show what they actually want to do is breed.  

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Permalink Reply by Melissa and Franklin! on May 11, 2011 at 11:44pm

I have done rally and really have found if you can get into an obedience class you can do rally. Rally is essentially obedience with signs....kind of like dressage of the dog world. Many of the signs are just basic obedience signs....heel at a walk/trot/run, down stay while you walk around your dog, weave through cones with your dog at a heel....heel...heel...heel. :-) My friend and I did rally for a bit, Franklin got SO BORED. However, her dog loved it and he has titled already and she's only been doing it a few months so that may be the way to go. Agility seems much harder to learn but easier to find trainers. Most humane societies/SPCA will do agility classes. Good luck!

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Permalink Reply by Cindy on May 12, 2011 at 9:29am

Um, I might be an obedience trainer but when rally came out, I had no clue.  Never took a rally class but worked with others, got on the forums and now have 5 dogs with RN's, one RA, two working on RA's, but unfortunately my RA dog is retired due to old age and won't be working on her RE.

If you don't know the signs, ask, most Rally people are great at explaining or showing you how to train a move.

 

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Permalink Reply by Chris West on May 12, 2011 at 11:23am

I am not really interested in breeding anytime soon.  What I want is a good dog to take to shows and win the shows.  I guess just to spread the word about how awesome cardigans are.  Look, I have this amazing dog... Ta da!!  People will ask questions, I can talk about my dog.  I want to meet lots and lots of breeders and see what their opinions are on the breed and what they are striving for in their dogs.  I don't know, I guess I am just weird that I want to know all about cardigans, and about breeding them, and see all the amazing dogs, and be a part of the scene with a dog of my own, but am just NOT interested in breeding.  My plans would be that if we won a lot of shows and did super well, that I might look to stud him out WAY in the future, but I do not plan to ever own any females myself.

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Permalink Reply by Cindy on May 12, 2011 at 11:45am

A couple other things to remember.  If you are just showing ie campaigning a dog, remember it is a dog too.  A lot of dogs can tolerate the week in week out travel, showing and associated stuff.  Some can't.   And that's one big reason I don't heavily campaign a dog-it's not fair to them. 

My son has a smooth collie special right now and one of the conditions was that this dog was not to be a kennel dog or go to every  show on the planet.  In between shows, he's just a dog.  Harassing the ducks, barking at the horses, lounging on the couch.  His breeder knows what too much showing can do to a dog.  Burn them out and make them not enjoy it.  We found in the few weeks we've had him, he's gotten sillier and more up-next show with him should be a blast!

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