let's talk about taping
ears!
so i've read about a lot of different ways to tape ears. i've also even heard of gluing with i think fabric glue or something... it seems kind of odd and the glue seems hard to find so i'm not even going to bother with it. what method do you guys recommend? does anyone have a good how to website? i'm a visual learner so if anyone knows of a website with pictures with the steps or a good video perhaps? unless you guys can be really descriptive with your steps!
i've seen some websites say just to use masking tape alone, and i've seen others say to cut up toilet paper rolls and put it in their ears with the tape or something? i don't know, the whole thing confuses me. there are so many "methods" but which one is the most effective and, well, the right method? and none of these sites say how long i have to tape their ears! or how many times a day. how long do i leave this on during the day? do i have to untape and apply fresh tape after so many hours? do i tape at night? is it ok to leave him alone while his ears are taped like say when i go to work? how do i tell when his ears are ready to stay up on their own?
i'm thinking i will have more questions once people start giving answers, so try to read some of my comments if i post any because they'll most likely be questions!
my new baby is coming saturday and i want to have all the supplies ready! he's 16 weeks old this week and the breeder said his ears are "starting" to come back up. apparently they were up when he was much younger then they fell again and have been down for a while. i don't want to risk him having floppy ears. not that there's anything wrong with floppy eared corgis! i just want mine to be perfect and pointy-eared =)
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on
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Beth, you said it right there "except for the tendency to favor huge fox ears". When I was a breeder, I made it a point to study dog genetics and not just breed on the look of the dogs. I did this mostly because I found genetics fascinating. It's true that many traits are poly-genetic, involving many genes, making end results harder to predict, but other traits, such as erect ears versus floppy ears, eye color, length or type of coat, are fairly straightforward.
That's why I can say with 100% certainty that, down ears being recessive, you cannot breed two dogs of any breed that naturally have floppy ears and get a pup that will naturally grow erect ears. I'm sure no one would breed a Lab to a Setter and foresee a pup from that litter having ears like a shepherd! Dominant traits mask recessive traits, so a dog with upright ears can produce dogs with one or both floppy ears. To select for upright ears, you need to select not on looks alone, but on the information garnered from what a bitch or sire PRODUCES. Every good breeder has had great show dogs that were not good producers and other, correct for the breed but not in that upper cut to win in the show ring, be their best producers of quality pups. Obviously, if you tape ears, you'll never know if they would have come up on their own ( a distinct possibility) or not.
For pets that are not breeding stock, no problem.
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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But Anna, Corgis with "down" ears have genetically upright ears that have flopped. They don't have the down ears of a beagle or spaniel. They have the upright base, but then the top half of the ear flops down. IF breeders were breeding genetically down ears then of course that would be a problem, but that's not the case with Corgis whose ears don't pop up.
Now, for breeds that crop ears, it's true they breed a down ear and then surgically manipulate it up. But no Corgi owners crop down ears. They are upright ears that are a bit too heavy for the leather; different thing genetically altogether.
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Beth, genetically upright ears don't flop, unless there has been a physical trauma to injure the ear structure. Desirable breed traits are not to be confused with the genetics of one individual dog.
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Permalink Reply by Jane on
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I'm not sure what you're saying here. Regardless if the dog's ears are floppy or not, the base of a corgi's ear is still upright. A genetically upright, prick ear set, even if the top half is flopped over. They end up with down ears because of weak cartilage not being supported, not because of the ear set.
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I'm not sure I can agree with that idea unless there is some sort of scientific study to back it up. I agree some lines tend to need more taping than others, but in general I think this is because the ear leather is thicker and heavier, and the ears in general are larger. Most people don't want to "wait and see" if the dog's ears come up at 6 months either, so most puppies aren't even given the chance.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason the ears stand or fall is because of the cartilage, not weak muscles. When teething the body uses a lot of the available calcium for the growing teeth which can cause the ears to fall again, because the cartilage is not yet fully hardened. That's why a lot of people recommend giving a vitamin C supplement to help with calcium absorption during this time. If you leave them down then a heavy crease forms in the cartilage making it very hard to get them upright again. The base of the ear is still upright no matter what, as Beth said.
When the breed basically says "the bigger the better" for ears, I don't think you'll find many people intentionally breeding for a smaller ear, even if it is stronger or stands easier. When it comes down to it it's a very cosmetic fault and most breeders seem to be much more concerned with structure and movement, which is the most important IMO.
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Jane, I'm not suggesting that ears up or down are more important than structure or movement. My point is only that it's a genetic problem, not a nutritional one. If you want to breed naturally upright ears, you select for that trait. It's good to know, that's why I posted it "for the record". What breeders choose to select for is their individual choice.
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I don't think anyone was arguing that it is a nutritional problem. To me it seems it's simply because of the trend for bigger and bigger ears, not because "X" gene says they should be floppy or prick. And again, not to be argumentative, but if you're posting it "for the record", do you have any links for your information?
On a side note, considering cardigans are descended from a drop eared breed it's no surprise to me that some dogs need assistance getting their ears to stand.
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Jane, size of ears, drop eared dogs in the ancestry, leather thickness etc. are all genetic traits that indeed combine. As for scientific studies, dog genetics is a well documented field anyone may access and these are pretty basic concepts, so no, I do not have a specific link. IMO any serious breeder should be well versed in genetics. It is not my place or intent to teach genetics here (which I have studied extensively) but to offer a prospective from my knowing and personal experience of the matter, having bred dogs for 30 years. I had one litter of pups most of whose ears did not come up, did not tape any (in spite of other breeder's advice, since it was such a great show and working line) so that I would know and I eliminated flopping eared dogs from my breeding program successfully. Suggestions that calcium or vitamin C will solve he problem ( nutritional solutions ) are incorrect.
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Permalink Reply by Chris, Kadi & Brodie on
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Not trying to stir the pot, but step back and look at this from a genetic evolutionary point of view and remember that with dogs, it does not take very many generations to alter the breed considerably. Scientists agree that dogs descended from wolves, right? That's ALL dogs. Hounds and herding dogs and lap dogs and all of them. Some of them have pendulous ears and others have prick ears. It stands to reason that the ones with drop ears, like bloodhounds for instance, achieved that great leap of difference by breeding the dogs with longer and longer and heavier ears. So, one can reason that if the tendency to breed a prick eared dog, corgis for instance, leans more and more toward heavier and larger ears, eventually they will all need to be taped. I think the point here was that if breeders were more selective and took into consideration the history of taping while breeding, then more corgis would have natural pricks, rather than needing tape. As long as the judges go for bigger ears, then they are contributing to that selection process as well. The standard says (bolding mine) :
Ears-Erect, firm, and of medium size, tapering slightly to a rounded point. Ears are mobile, and react sensitively to sounds. A line drawn from the nose tip through the eyes to the ear tips, and across, should form an approximate equilateral triangle. Bat ears, small catlike ears, overly large weak ears, hooded ears, ears carried too high or too low, are undesirable. Button, rose or drop ears are very serious faults.
I have often heard them referred to as being 'fox like'. I guarantee you there are no foxes that have their ears taped.
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I was also considering cardigans in my posts so I'll throw that standard in here too:
Ears large and prominent in proportion to size of dog. Slightly rounded at the tip, and of good strong leather. Moderately wide at the base, carried erect and sloping slightly forward when alert. When erect, tips are slightly wide of a straight line drawn from the tip of the nose through the center of the eye. Small and/or pointed ears are serious faults. Drop ears are a disqualification.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong to breed towards a larger ear that needs to be taped, but I personally do not believe there is an "x" gene which causes the ear to be dropped as Anna is saying, at least in corgis. If someone can provide info otherwise, I'd love to see it as I find it very interesting.
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Jane, nowhere did I say there is one "x" gene which causes the ears to be dropped. I said it is a recessive trait. There may be several genes co-involved. The solution is a genetic one, taping the ears only masks the weakness. When you select a stud dog, and he's the big winner,, nobody wonders if his ears were taped as a pup... I GUARANTEE that if you breed two corgis with flop ears all the resulting pups will have flop ears. If you tape, you'll never know what you have genetically, as they may have come up or not.
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Anna, I usually respect your knowledge but I think you've got it not quite right in this case. Drop ears may be recessive, but again Corgis who don't have ears come up do NOT have genetic drop ears. They have genetic prick ears (up at the base) whose weight or some other issue has made them fall. It's not a straight recessive, like a fluffy coat or BHT coloring is.
GSD's, huskies, and quite a lot of other prick-eared dogs sometimes need ears taped too. Every site I've ever read about taping says you can't tell if they needed taping til it's too late. Since breeders know their lines quite well, they would certainly know if there were an ancestral way to determine how the ears would come out. Corgis whose ears drop are NOT genetically drop-eared dogs. Not sure where you got that from.
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