Unlocking the Frisbeesphere - Update 04 July
OH MY GOD! Oh my god. The greatest news. Ace, my husband and I all went down to the dog park. It was pouring rain, no breeze. There were no dogs in the area so we decided to pack up and head for home. While walking to the tram stop, my husband showed the lightweight cloth frisbee that arrived in the post at his work today. We decided we'd have one last hurrah of throwing a disc around before we officially retired Ace from the 'sport'.
Lo and behold, we chucked it out in front of us... and ACE CAUGHT IT OUT OF THE AIR. We are talking like, seasoned Disc Dog Championship 2012 catch. It was amazing. Despite the rain weighing it down, the frisbee was so lightweight that it simply floated along in the air long enough for Ace to give chase and hunt it down. It was amazing. It's like everything that I had been working on in separate pieces - the catch, the chase, the retrieve - all came together in to one glorious moment. When he caught it, I went ballistic and showered him with praise. We threw it around a couple more times, Ace gave chase every time (but wasn't so lucky with catching). It was SO awesome to see this dog who notoriously doesn't care about toys, hunt down a Frisbee while it soars through the air.
I am so proud of my little gray potato. Ace ALWAYS surprises me. I wish I had taken video of the moment. It was magical!
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It's been a few days now since I have embarked on the Frisbee journey with Ace. I'd have to say that it largely feels like treading water. A dog like him who is highly UN-motivated by toys is really tough in a sport like disc dogging. Ace can catch like nobody's business, and his retrieve is wonderful. But he just won't track the disc worth a damn. No matter what rewards lie in store for him, no matter how much frenziness I manage to create, Ace isn't chomping at the bit to get at the disc. I am afraid my dreams of miraculously creating a Frisbee dog out of He Who Cares Not for Toys are rapidly waning.
I've watched about 50+ videos now on teaching Frisbee to absolute beginner dogs. And on every video there is the "short distance throws" bit, and that's where Ace just stalls out. These dogs, these JRTs, Borders, Aussies, ACDs... they all WANT that disc in their mouths. When going on the 'around', they're actively hunting down the disc's location with their eyes. When Ace does his around, he just kinda stares off into space. I let him play tug briefly to get his heart rate and play drive up, but he just doesn't care enough about the disc.
Admitting defeat is something I hate to do. Particularly as someone who wants to do into dog training professionally. So maybe I need someone else to tell me when to stop, but also when to keep going? I'm kind of in a weird gray area right now. Ace can catch floated discs like a champ, but it's looking more and more unlikely that he'll ever run out and chase a disc down with his lack of enthusiasm. Is this the point where I should just say, Okay, let's stop?
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As some of you may know by now, Ace has been particularly challenging to me with regards to play. Be it with toys or humans, he has always had a very noticeable lack of interest in the subject. It took me close to 8 months to get him to Fetch. Not because he's stubborn, or would chase the ball and then not return, or any of the usual issues one might have with Fetch. No, he was just completely avoiding it. In the end, religiously doing a round of Fetch for morsels of his raw dinner was the only thing that finally made him realize, Fetch isn't so bad. Now he'll willingly go out and retrieve for me. But is he doing it because it's fun? Heck no. It's because I'll reward him with food.
Being the masochistic aspiring dog trainer that I am, I decided my next play activity du jour would be Frisbee. Yeah, I know. Frisbee is something I think a lot of dog owners take for granted, and sometimes train incorrectly. Dogs can seriously hurt themselves during it when jumping excessively towards a vertical angle. Long-backed dogs like Corgis aren't wholly suited to the sport. With that in mind, I set out to teach Ace this well-beloved and totally awesome looking sport correctly.
It has been a nightmare. The usual tricks of making a dog interested in a Frisbee (feeding him out of it, smearing it with soft cheese, waving it around like crazy with Happy Voice) just don't work on Ace. He would rather sit by the window and watch the grass grow. Ace is such a peculiar dog in so many ways. In situations where I expect dogs to freak out (thunderstorms, bumpy car rides, baths, vacuum cleaners), Ace actually LOVES them. On the other hand, stuff like tennis balls and chewy Frisbees mean nothing.
But today... today, a lightbulb kinda-sorta-maybe went on in that little head of his. Using his raw dinner as a reward, since tugging the Frisbee is hardly enjoyable, I managed to make Ace pursue and grab several "rollers" - Frisbees rolled along the ground. And the crowning moment at the end of the day - in our apartment hallway, he snatched it out of the air after I floated it while he ran towards me. For a usual dog, it would be a tiny victory. For Ace, it deserved a slice of pig's ear and herding the cats (something we usually forbid). Now he sleeps happily on the floor, at my feet, with a poochy tummy full of dinner. Hurray!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on
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Ludi, you're right on both points ( the socialization window and that he is not a good candidate for therapy dog work) . You have done an amazing job with Ace in expanding his world, he is happy and I think you should focus more on how far he's come and really consolidating those gains you have both made together, rather than pushing for more right now. Learning reaches a plateau, where it is more advantageous to have a period without new demands and new learning. How long depends on the dog. This process is true also for people.
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Permalink Reply by Ludi on
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Thank you so much. :) I am guilty of pushing Ace often! I see how capable he is with just a couple sessions, and think, "How can I put this intelligence to REAL work?".
If he had been A-OK with people, therapy dog work would have been just perfect for him. He's cool as a cucumber, and I've practiced handling him all over so much that he would absolutely let someone hold him in awkward positions... if he liked them.
For now he is content to be a lazy couch potato, and occasionally herd cats in addition to the clicker training we do daily. I just hope that when the time comes for him to try out Herding, that he's not going to balk at it. Dogs with a job are really great to watch. :)
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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Ludi, disc sports are best for dogs who naturally track objects that move. Strong-eyed herders, some bird dogs and dogs like JRT's that are bred to track quarry and go to ground are your best choices. I know that Maddie does not understand tracking at all. She will go out of control for frisbees or tennis balls, she is mad for them, but she watches your hands not the ball. Jack can track a little but Mr. Smarty Pants tends to get ahead of himself and run towards where he thinks it will go before you even throw it.
I would say play around with it for fun, but try something else for a dog sport. Have you tried actually herding with him, since he likes herding the cats so much? If that is not an option in your area (as you know, Corgis don't work the same as border collies AT ALL and a lot of herding people pretty much only work BC's), then stick with stuff where you can give him clear directions and he can be proud to work for you. Agility, rally, competitive obedience.
I really wish we had more dog sports here. Maddie would probably be wonderful at lure coursing and dock diving. Jack would be great at tracking. But alas, nothing. Agility and rally are it. I do agility with Jack. I tried rally with Maddie but honestly leash work is not my thing (though she is good at it).
Good luck!
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Herding sheep will be available in a few short months! My husband just needs to get his license exam finished and we can start driving up there each weekend. :) The owner of the farm IS a fan of BCs and may not really know how to work with me and a Corgi, but I really hope he can do something with us. He does work with all breeds (even those not traditionally herders) so we'll see!
As for agility, I won't be putting Ace through that until he hits the 18 month mark, maybe even a little longer since he's taking eons to grow. Rally and competitive obedience just aren't really "done" out here. The most popular dog sports are Agility, French Ring (like Schutzhund), then Freestyle heelwork, flyball, and "attelage". It is when a dog (50+ kg) pulls carts through an obstacle course. Not sure what the English word for it could be.
Ace would be DYNAMITE at lure coursing. Probably at dock diving as well. He commits himself entirely to jumps and pursuing "prey". That's why I had such high hopes for him with Frisbee, since he pushes himself 100% when in hot pursuit. I had a Basenji who did some lure coursing and it was just breathtaking to watch. Ace may not be of the same build (at all... :D) but when I see him zipping around the dog park, turning on a dime thanks to his low center of gravity, I know that he could do well in the sport. I really wish France would expand its mind about dog sports! >:(
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Permalink Reply by Rachael McClanahan on
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Way to go, Ace!!
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Permalink Reply by Bax & Zigs & Rosie on
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Congrats!! Lol at grey little potato. What a cute nickname!
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Don't be fooled, it's all business to him! Sometimes when I'm making him Fetch, he does "let go" and the pick up in speed is directly proportional to the amount of fun he's having. I suspect if/when he ever really likes Frisbee for the sake of it, he'll start running out ahead a lot quicker!
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