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Permalink Reply by Sam Tsang on January 30, 2009 at 9:35am

Don't feel bad, it happens to everyone. What matters is you recognize there is a problem and is trying to fix it :)

In my opinion, I would reinforce exercise, discipline then affection. Increase the exercise for both, walk them on leash daily, 1 mile to 2 miles a day. The walk is going to build relationship, it is not a sniff and stroll, it is on a mission, both of them needs to follow you. They will need to listen and pay attention to your direction. This will tired them out and give them a sense of job / mission.

Discipline, now that you recognize the things that may trigger the fights and aggression, remove and work with them. Be consistent with the rules, which toy belongs to who and that's the end of it, make sure everyone in your family is on board with the rules and reinforce them. As soon as you see "the look", jump right in, be calm, don't yell and remove one or both from the situation. Are they food possessive? try feed them in a different corner far apart or in a different room / crate. Treat them with one in each hand, separate them, do not produce any chance for a fight.

We take in fosters from time to time and it takes about 2-3 weeks for the pack to get alone and find each other out, that's if they're in harmony, so it really takes some time and work. Good luck! Let us know if you have any specific questions, I'm sure other members will have more experience to share with you :)

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Permalink Reply by MagnoliaFly on January 30, 2009 at 9:50am

By correcting Beatrix using the "submissive position" (I'm assuming you're alpha rolling her onto her back?) you quite possibly made the behavior much worse.

I recommend ordering and reading the following books:
Click to Calm by Emma Parsons
FIGHT! by Jean Donaldson - treating dog/dog aggression
MINE! by Jean Donaldson - treating resource guarding

It is never too early to begin training puppies but you must be gentle and use positive methods with a good trainer that knows how much is too much and when to stop. Try and locate a trainer with aggression experience that uses positive behavior modification methods even if it means driving two hours for a consult. You don't want to have thousands of dollars in vet bills if these two dogs really get into it and possibly injure or kill one another.

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Permalink Reply by The Divas on February 6, 2009 at 11:22am

MagnoliaFly: That is exactly what happened. The trainer we went to showed us to use this method, but I know better now. We completely stopped using it about 6 months ago, and although we still aren't where we want to be, I can tell it's helped by not doing it.

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Permalink Reply by Chris on February 6, 2009 at 11:27am

We got Cricket when she was 7 weeks and Kirby was settled in our house and 2 years old. In the last month, Kirby became aggresssive toward Cricket when he would see the food bowls. He would give a genuine snarl and growl (as opposed to when they would "play fight", and lunge at her. We would break them up and seperate them and they would eventually calm down and everything would go back to normal. It happened again outside when Kirby was digging at some snow...Cricket came along and poked her nose in the hole like "what are you digging up?" and he attacked her. Then he started doing it coming in or out of the house.

Long story short, we've changed our normal routine. They now wait in their individual crates while we prepare their foods (kirby gets medication with every meal and it has to sit for 15 minutes, so Cricket waits to get hers too). They eat in their crates too. Once they finish, we release them, and everything is fine. The trainer said Cricket is getting older, and growing into adulthood and Kirby recognizes it and is asserting his dominance in various situations.

I read that you should never discipline the alpha dog (Kirby) in front of the other one as this makes the alpha feel like he has to reassert his dominance over the other one later. It did seem to happen like that when I repeatedly asked Kirby to "leave it" meaning the hole he was digging in the snow (different instance than above) and he kept leaving it and returning to it. The last time, I yelled at him and he IMMEDIATELY ran 20 feet to where Cricket was doing her own thing, and pinned her up against the house.

We can now recognize the looks they give each other before any aggression occurs. He tends to give a very slight snarl with his jowels and we can stop it at that point with firm words like "oh no you don't" or something similiar. He seems to accept that and backs off.

It can be extremely stressful, so I hope you can find a solution and they can work it out!

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Permalink Reply by The Divas on February 6, 2009 at 11:32am

Chris,
Thanks for the story. I hadn't thought about the alpha role having to be reinforced, but it does make sense. I think a part of our problem is that the two dogs are competing for dominance, since the puppy is now over a year old and is starting to grow up. I just want them to know that WE are the dominant ones! :) I've been reading these forums and following the advice that everyone has been giving me, and I do think we are making progress. Now, instead of attacking O-ren when she starts barking, Beatrix looks at me like "are you going to do something?" which makes me feel much better. THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR FEEDBACK!!!

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Permalink Reply by Sylvia & Timmy on February 6, 2009 at 12:16pm

I probably speak alone on this, but dump the alpha stuff. A true alpha dog, doesn't normally exhibit that kind of aggression. They just are! In my many years around German Shepherds and now corgis, I've only seen a couple of true alpha dogs, generally female.

Since the fighting is escalating, please remember that sometimes due to our own lack of knowledge, we really should seek out the consul of "experts" regarding complex issues especially behaviors. Taking a trip, overnight if necessary to see a qualified behaviorist (APDT Behaviorist or CAAB, certified applied animal behaviorist, that specializes in dog aggression cases). One source is the APDT website or you might check with a corgi breeder or rescuer close to you.

If the problems persist, please keep the dogs seperated. Fighting can escalate to a very dangerous level quickly. Females, especially have been known to fight to the death. I don't mean to scare you, but better to be safe than sorry. Worst case scenario, you will have to rehome one of the dogs, preferably with a rescue group. This is not a reflection on you, just one of the hardest decisions to make for the best interest of both dogs.

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Permalink Reply by MagnoliaFly on February 11, 2009 at 11:11am

I completely agree. Any trainer that uses "alpha" or "dominance" in their explanations of behavior need to be dumped. Find a real behaviorist.

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