The Limp Is Back
I started a discussion a while ago during the limping epidemic that seems to be going on about Finnigan limping ("Another one Bites the Dust"). His limp would come and go and for the last week at least he's been limp free. When I came home at lunch today to take him potty, he hobbled out of his crate and didn't want to walk. His limp is pretty bad and for no apparent reason. We don't have a yard so anytime he is outside we're with him and he hasn't done anything crazy. Besides that, he wasn't limping in the morning so what could have happened to him in his crate? Anyway, I am stumped and worried so tomorrow after work we're taking him to the vet. I was hoping to avoid this because not only is it expensive but how do you know that the diagnosis is correct? I hope it's nothing serious and I really hope he doesn't need surgery but most of all I want him to feel better. It's so sad seeing him limp around and despite his obvious pain, he still wants to play. He'll try to move at a jogging pace but ends up hopping to avoid putting weight on that back right leg. I'll let you all know what the vet says tomorrow. Wish him luck!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alice on
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I made the mistake of trying to find out more online. I came across many neurological issues (degenerative, congenital, inflammatory etc), some leading to paralysis. Now it does sound much scarier! As with most diseases though, the symptoms could be linked to any number of things or depending on the intensity could be perfectly normal which is why I should not try to diagnose anything myself as I will just get more and more concerned. I do the same thing with myself. My husband makes fun of me because if something is wrong I grab my Mayo Medical Encyclopedia. :)
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Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on
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It's scary but honestly in Cardis the only thing you really worry about is DM (degenerative myelopathy) and IVDD (which is a disc disease that can impinge on the spine but isn't a spinal thing per se). He's WAY too young for DM - average age of diagnosis is something like eleven for that - and IVDD is a catastrophic injury and there's no way you'd miss it.
Since this appeared very young, I'm inclined to say that if it's a neuro issue it's something that was present from birth or from the time that he was exposed to whatever virus or disease killed the rest of the litter. And in that case it's not likely to get worse; it's just something you and he have to learn to deal with. Remember to look at HIM - happy and silly and not aware that anything's wrong - and not at a list of symptoms. He's still the same dog; adding a label or a name to something doesn't change that.
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Joanna, he has lifted his leg maybe twice before. He normally just stretches out his body, bends his hind legs into a crouch and points his tail.
I'm not sure if the urination is involuntary or not. The guilty look on his face makes it seem like he didn't mean to do it but at the same time, he doesn't have a clear way of telling us he needs to go out so maybe he just can't hold it all the time or maybe he gets too excited when we play. It's hard to say.
I'm glad to hear that about DM and IVDD. I came across those illnesses and wasn't aware of the likelihood of him having either of them.
If it's not something that will get worse, I'm sure I can deal with it without so much worry and like I said, he is happy as can be so I know he can deal with it.
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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Yes, Alice, like Joanna said, he's not aware there's a problem. This is normal for him, and if it's not degenerative, he's not a person and can't look around and say "Gee, the other dogs can run/jump etc better than I can!" and feel bad about it. I mean, I know you fully understand that in your head, but of course in your heart you're worried.
What Joanna is saying is making sense. I mean, if he can't jump and can't go down stairs and has urine leakage, all of those things together seem to point to a more systemic problem.
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A degenerative disease would be my major concern. If this is something that will stay as it is, I can deal with that. I know I'm the one that needs to get over it, but as you said, the head and the heart are not always in agreement.
It does seem to add up to something neurological doesn't it? I don't know how to tell if the dribbling is uncontrollable or not. If it is controllable I should scold him, but if not, how can I be mad at him? Someone needs to invent the collars that allow dogs thoughts to be vocalized in English like in that Pixar movie UP! If you have not see it, it's such a cute movie. :)
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If his body posture isn't "peeing," it's involuntary. I've got a little sod of a dachshund mix who is about Finn's age and he'll occasionally still pee in the house, but he's PEEING. He lifts his leg and does it very deliberately.
If it is something that bothers you he can wear a belly band with a sanitary pad inside it. If it doesn't bother you, there is nothing wrong with having to wipe with paper towels a few times a week.
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His peeing stance I described is outside. I just realized you were probably inquiring about inside when you asked me. Inside he will dribble a little while walking then act like he's in trouble and sit or lay at my feet and that's when I can see a couple more little spurts come out. I think it's odd to pee laying down too, but if he thinks he's about to get in trouble he may lay down to act submissive (as he always does when he knows he's done something wrong) but still pee because he can't hold it. One time a couple weeks ago my husband took him out for the last time of the night then about an hour later I told Finn to go to bed so he went into his crate and when I knelt down to pet him and shut the door he hopped out and climbed onto my lap and peed a little then ran off down the hall and peed some more. He's never acted that way before. I felt his bedding and it was not wet so he must have known he was going to pee which is why he hopped out. Maybe he thought getting in my lap would let me know he had to potty. If I’m unsure perhaps I should not scold him. He obviously knows it’s wrong anyway.
When we take him to my Mom's he pees inside a lot and I'm sure it's intentional. He will usually do it while walking. He's gained respect for our house but not everyone else’s.
It's frustrating when he dribbles inside but our carpet is wrecked from when he was little anyway so I'm ok with going behind him with cleaner and paper towels. I'm sure he'd hate a diaper.
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Peeing while walking is NOT on purpose. No dog pees while walking, any more than you pee while walking. It's also vanishingly rare to pee while laying down, while on someone's lap, while sitting, etc. Dogs that are disobeying or who need to go out and nobody's responding to their signals will go find a corner or a hallway away from their living/sleeping area, and they'll pee there. They don't want to get pee on themselves or their beds or their eating areas and it's usually very distressing for genuinely incontinent dogs because they feel icky and dirty, just the way it would be for you.
He's probably just learned how to hold it better at your house and is more excited by being at someone else's, so he loses the physical control. If he's got a problem getting signals from his back end to his brain, he's learned how to not pee but he doesn't feel the sensations. He doesn't feel "gotta go" and he doesn't feel "hold it in." He's got the right instincts to try to stay clean in his own house, so he does his best, but he's doing it by deliberately telling himself to pee or not to pee. If he forgets to tell himself not to pee, it leaks.
I would definitely not scold him. It sounds like he's doing a heroic job trying to be good.
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I assumed it was normal for him to pee while walking because he has always done it. Even when he is outside and stops to pee he will begin walking again before he's totally done. This is the only way I've ever known him to be and since when I voiced my concern about a neurological disorder everyone shrugged it off, I assumed this was all normal.
I remember people saying how easy it is to house break Corgis but with him always walking and peeing it was impossible to keep up with him. Sometimes you wouldn't even see there was pee there until you stepped in it because a little zig zag of pee is not visible like a puddle is on carpet. If he left a puddle here and there it would have been so much easier. His bladder control is much better than it used to be in our house. I wonder if he will ever be able to keep from peeing in other people's houses.
I wish I were able to talk to his breeder about this. If I were him I would want to know. What if something like this occurred again and he were able to catch it before placing the pup in a home? I wish I knew all of this before we got Finn. Not that I regret getting him; I love him and can’t imagine a better boy, but I can only say that now that he’s been a part of our lives. I can’t say that I would have chosen a puppy with all these problems. It was another case of the head and heart not being on the same page. My head told me something was wrong and it was foolish to take this puppy, but my heart said it must be fate that the puppy we chose from birth was the one to live and he’s everything we wanted. At least I know Finn is glad we took him. :)
Joanna, among breeders, if a pup is born with health issues what is done with them? Are the placed in homes where the family is aware of the problems, kept by the breeder, put to sleep? I’ve always wondered that.
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It totally depends on the severity of the issues. If a puppy is born that is, for example, deaf (and the breeder catches it - sometimes it's not obvious), they are often placed for a very small adoption fee and go on to live pretty much normal lives. A puppy who has a healed serious or semiserious injury is usually kept until the breeder is absolutely sure everything is healed and then is sold at the normal pet price (would usually not be sold for show, no matter how pretty).
A puppy with neurological issues would either be placed for free or a very small fee or would be kept. It's not uncommon in some breeds and we usually look for a "quality of life" home that knows what they're in for.
Puppies that have very little expectation for a normal life - blind AND deaf, for example, or with seizures, or spina bifida, megaesophagus, or other issues that would be painful or extremely distressing for the dog - are put to sleep.
Sometimes we just don't catch stuff, or problems develop later, or our own vet failed us and misidentified an issue. That's why we have health warranties, and hopefully have also warned all buyers that sometimes, no matter how careful we are, they don't get the puppy they thought they were getting. If it's something that was our fault, we try to make it right. If it's something that was not our fault (for example, epilepsy in certain breeds is not inherited but just an act of God; or cancer; or certain skin disorders), we try to support the buyer through it and help them make good decisions.
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That makes sense. Thank you for sharing that with us. It's something I've always wondered because surely every now and then a pup is born with health problems.
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Alice,
Jack was one of those very busy puppies who would not really pay attention to the fact that he had to pee if he was playing hard (which was basically what he was doing if he was not asleep or eating!) Because of that, he was not reliable for not peeing inside til he was around 6 or 7 months old. BUT he would always stop and squat and pee a small puddle. He would be running full speed and barely pause, but he wasn't peeing while moving; he was just not really taking a time out and just peeing where he was.
I agree that it is unusual, in my experience, for even a puppy to pee while they are walking. They generally pause and squat/lift leg, even if they are involved in something else.
I am honestly a bit surprised that your vet told you this was normal.
I'm also surprised your breeder isn't more involved. I would think he would want to find out if it were something acquired, or something that might be in one of his lines. I don't know much at all about what neurological disorders are inherited and which are acquired. But I know the Chessie breeder where my parents got Molly had one of her puppy buyers report a dog having seizures, and she immediately started making lots of phone calls and was able to trace the problem to an outside stud who started having seizure disorders pop up in his line.
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