Question about Wet/Dry food?
Ok, so I just adopted my Corgi two months ago. He has been absolutely wonderful! I started him on Beneful Healthy Radiance because of his coat.(I had a Lab who ate this and lived to be almost 14 so I didn't know it isn't as good as you think it is for them at the time) When I took him to the Vet for the first time she said that food was fine and that he looked great. I was feeding him a 1/2 cup in the AM and then again in the PM as I had read that was a good amount for Corgi's. I thought he seemed like he was a little thin when I got him and the Vet said he was a couple pounds underweight (He was 26lbs and I read Male Corgis should be 28-30lbs) She said she would prefer him to be a little underweight than overweight but that is he is really active than to up his food to 3/4 cup in the AM and PM. So I did as he runs in the backyard everyday and couple times a day. We try and take a walk everyday (if it would stop raining here it would be everyday lol) and we also play a lot in the house throughout the day (I am lucky enough to be home all day as I had two heart surgeries last yr and am out of work for a couple yrs).
My question is he all of a sudden started picking at his food sometimes he would eat and sometimes not or he might only eat a half bowl. Well he did this for a couple days about two weeks after I got him but after two day he went right back to normal. This past week he picked and barely ate for three days so when I was at the store I picked up a Beneful wet food and mixed in just a big tbsp of the wet food and he gobbled it right up! I have been reading about different dog foods and I now know Natural is the best and I have since read the ingredients in the Beneful and realized there is no meat. I plan on talking to his Vet and seeing what she recommends for Natural food. I also know wet food isnt good for them and I want him to be a dry dog food kinda dog but is there any harm in him getting a big tbsp of wet food mixed in with the dry? He is now back to eating and his stools are just fine...
My question is he all of a sudden started picking at his food sometimes he would eat and sometimes not or he might only eat a half bowl. Well he did this for a couple days about two weeks after I got him but after two day he went right back to normal. This past week he picked and barely ate for three days so when I was at the store I picked up a Beneful wet food and mixed in just a big tbsp of the wet food and he gobbled it right up! I have been reading about different dog foods and I now know Natural is the best and I have since read the ingredients in the Beneful and realized there is no meat. I plan on talking to his Vet and seeing what she recommends for Natural food. I also know wet food isnt good for them and I want him to be a dry dog food kinda dog but is there any harm in him getting a big tbsp of wet food mixed in with the dry? He is now back to eating and his stools are just fine...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Marius on
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I'm no expert since I've only had Kit since September and he's going to be turning 7 months on the 12th. But I've gone through a lot of different foods with him. He first started on Ians Puppy Formula, then I switched him to some dry kibble from Whole Foods (can't remember the brand but thought it would be better than Ians) then I switched him to Stella and Chewy's Chicken Raw Food, he loved it, but started to have stomach problems. I then switched to Fromm, and now with Orijen. What I noticed through all this switching was that about a couple of weeks ago, he wouldn't just gobble up his food, but would just pick at it, and return to it a bit later (I kinda blame my mother for giving him chicken from the table one time, so now i think he's begging for food and not eating his own). What I found to really work, and this forum helped a lot. Was to remove the food bowl after 15-20 mins (even if he ate 5-10% of his food) and then give him his normal amount his next feeding cycle. This worked better than mixing different wet foods with the kibble.
Also, I started to read Cesar Milan's book Be The Pack Leader, and he has some very interesting points. One of them being that dogs want to earn their food, they would hunt in the wild for it, so when it's provided to them without them working for it, they can become bored/unexcited for it. I'm paraphrasing here, but I started to use this in how I handle Kit's food now, and he's back to gobbling it up again. If he doesn't eat all his food (sometimes it just seems hes not that hungry since he only eats 90% of it, I need to work on the amount of food he gets to the amount of energy he exerted before) I take the bowl away. Then when I return back from work, I go for a long walk with him, burn some of that energy. Get him hungry. This would also be a great time to work on obedience/tricks, since he will want that treat even more. Then, after he calms down a bit, I bring out the food bowl and make him pay attention to me, give him the sit command, and once he sits down, i wait, make sure he's calm and paying attention to me, and then I praise him and set the food down. Cesar does a better variation of this in his book in which his method he has the dogs look him in the eye, and he shows through his energy that he is providing this food for them, and he is proud of them, so forth and so on. Then when i place the food down, Kit is all over it.
Sorry for the mad ramblings and novel, but I'm at work and have nothing better to do then write this novel. Oh, and here's the link to my feeding problem before:
http://www.mycorgi.com/forum/topics/kit-running-hot-and-is
Oh, and at first I wasn't really into the whole "Dog Whisper" thing, and my sister nagging me to read/watch his material didn't really help. But I read an expert from his book on Amazon (they have a "Read first couple of pages" button on pretty much all books) I really got into it. Now reading his book, I started to notice many things I'm doing wrong and things I've never thought about (like I should be the first person in and out the door, not the pup).
Alright, i'm done. Good luck and I hope all goes well. Sorry to hear about the heart surgeries, but hopefully your Jenga can help in healing your heart.
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Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on
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Wet food is absolutely fine for them. For some reason that became a kind of conventional wisdom - because of their teeth, I think. But the fact is that eating kibble doesn't clean their teeth any more than eating potato chips would brush yours. What cleans their teeth is biting *through* something that holds its shape long enough to scrape off the gunk. Hills spent a huge amount of time and money coming up with a dental diet that is actually like eating loofas; the kibbles are yielding and have a texture that scrubs the teeth. It's absolutely unnecessary for most dogs, though; what they should be doing is eating BONE. When they push through a bone it scrapes the sides of the tooth before it breaks, which is why raw-fed dogs tend to have teeth like piano keys even in their old age.
However, that particular soapbox aside, there's nothing wrong with canned food in and of itself. All food should be evaluated based on the ingredients. Canned Alpo is pretty terrible; canned Solid Gold is great.
If your vet thought Beneful was a fine food, she'll probably point you to a Hills (Science Diet) product or, at best, something like Nutro. You'll probably do a better job picking a kibble on your own. I personally like Orijen for adult dogs and something like Solid Gold Wolf King for puppies, if owners don't want to feed raw, but my choices are not the only decent foods. And yes, whatever you choose, you can feel free to add canned food as long as it is of the same high quality.
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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Adding canned is, as Joanna said, just fine. Just keep in mind what your schedule will be like. If you will always be the one feeding, then that is great. If you plan on boarding fairly often or having a dog-sitter if you travel or work long hours, then you probably want to ensure a couple times a week that your dog will still eat just plain kibble, since for the sake of practicality you will likely only use that when you are leaving your dog in someone else's care.
We mix in "people food" like canned pumpkin, plain unsweetened yogurt, green beans or plain unflavored rice cakes with the evening meal for calorie reduction, but in the morning just feed plain kibble and they eat it fine. The suggestion to pick it up after 15 minutes to encourage not lingering over the food is a good one.
My main concern with Beneful, besides not having a meat meal near the top, is the unnecessary food colorings. Some foods even have sugar or corn syrup mixed in--- a big no-no! Having said that, I have had my now 16-and-a-half year old cat on Friskies Dental Diet for ever, since long before I even thought to read the (relatively crappy) ingredients, and she's very healthy and has perfect teeth. And cats have much more rigid dietary requirements than dogs. So, go figure....
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Permalink Reply by Alice on
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Many people say they raised healthy pets on foods that have become less desirable but who's to say whether the food is what kept them in good health? I choose to feed a higher quality food, with protein as the first couple ingredients. We fed Blue Buffalo puppy food then switched to Wellness Super 5 Mix adult and shortly after, Finnigan started having digestive issues. After eliminating all possible causes the vet suggested that Finn may have developed an intolerance to to chicken since that's all he had ever eaten. We switched to Natural Balance Duck and Potato limited ingredient diet and he's been fine ever since plus he has a shiny coat and great energy. When the vet first suggested switching food he recommended the food they sell. I looked at the ingredients and they were pretty bad. We opted to find our own food and it worked out. I don't think veterinarians have as much knowledge when it comes to nutrition as one would hope and when it comes to food, I think you are more likely to find a good food by doing your own research.
I agree that mixing wet and dry food is fine, but it should not be necessary. If he is not eating all of his food since you increased the serving size it could be that he doesn't require that much food. Has he maintained his weight since you've had him or has he lost weight? How old is he? Does he look underweight or are we just basing it on what is normal for the breed?
Finn went through a stage when he didn't want his food. We ignored it and let him skip a meal here and there. Many times he would eat his breakfast but not his dinner. After cutting back his portions he started eating it all as soon as I put it down. This to me indicates that he was being fed too much. We cut it back as he neared one year of age but it didn't seem to be enough. He now eats 1/2 cup twice a day and we may cut it back more to get him to drop a couple pounds per our vets recommendations (he weighs in on the high end of what a male Cardi should weigh).
We mix in food as a treat such as the occasional pumpkin or yogurt but I know he will eat his food with or without it.
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Permalink Reply by Geri & Sidney on
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Chester, our old lab/dane (age 15) has absolutely thrived on Beneful..I tell him he has a cast-iron stomach. I know that it's not a good quality food, but I figure at his age, he's done well and I won't upset him by switching.
My corgi mix, Bruce, needs a special prescription food because his kidneys are failing. He gets Royal Canin Renal.
I wanted a really good quality food for Sidney, so we have settled on Wellness. He's doing really well on it, from poops to coat.
All three dogs get a little canned mixed into their food. Chester gets Pedigree, again because that is what he has been used to all his life. Bruce gets a Innova senior because it is low protein and better for his kidney disease. For Sidney gets a variety of good quality canned, usually Wellness or Merrick, but sometimes I pick up something different. It's just a couple spoonfuls mixed in but it makes a big difference!
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Yeah, I'm afraid to switch my cat at this point too, even if Friskies isn't likely the food I would put her on if I were just starting out now. She's 16 and doesn't really need to deal with any major changes in her life.
It reminds me of a friend of mine who was helping out an elderly neighbor. The guy was in his 90's, and he was in the hospital for a broken ankle or something, and the nurses were giving him a hard time about eating a steak. I'm thinkin' if the guy has hit 93 or whatever, the steaks are obviously not a problem!
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Permalink Reply by Heather on
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Thank you all for your responses. I haven't decided for sure what I am going to do as far as keep feeding this or switch to a more natural food. First off he is a yr and a half old. As far as his weight and all. He had actually dropped a little over a lb. when we went to the Vet that is why she said to increase his food intake if he is very active which he is. (He does look a little underweight so it's not just relying on the scale) I do agree that he could just not be eating because he is full and come to think of it the days that he didn't eat much were the two days I was sick and didn't have him quite as active. He absolutely loves having a spoonful of the Beneful wet food mixed in and his tummy seems to tolerate Beneful in general very well. His coat is very soft and shiny (actually this has improved since I got him) and he poops just fine. I don't want him to be dependent on having the wet food in his food, I want him to be able to just eat dry as well. One container of the wet food lasts three days so he really isnt getting that much of it. So for now I am going to continue what I am giving him and research more natural foods and go from there. Thanks again for everyones input. I appreciate it :)
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One of the things that dog food companies do know how to do is get a shiny coat and nice poop. They know that those are the two things that owners look for. It's pretty easy - Beneful adds soybean oil. If you add oil to ANYTHING, including sawdust, you'll get a shiny coat. The poop is nice and firm because so little of the food is actually completely digested; a ton of it is indigestible fiber and comes out the other end.
You don't need to worry about the label "natural" as much as you need to get more meat and less other stuff. Beneful - and this should not be at all surprising, since Purina is a manufacturer of animal feeds of all kinds - is actually very similar to something like their turkey food, except that they add a bunch of artificial colors and sweeteners and make the kibbles into pretty shapes.
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"If you add oil to ANYTHING, including sawdust, you'll get a shiny coat."
That is simply not true. A severely malnourished animal will have a poor coat even if they get oil in their diet. It's not quite that easy.
Beneful may not be a top-of-the-line food, and that I can agree with, but simply putting oil in any old crap won't give a dog a great coat (or nails or teeth or muscle tone, etc). Beneful meets the nutrient standards and dogs can digest vegetable protein, which is not to say that I don't prefer seeing a food with animal protein at the top of the list, but sawdust + oil will give a dog that will starve to death, and along the way his coat will turn coarse and dull and likely even start to come out in patches, just like your own hair would if you had a host of nutrient deficiencies.
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The dog will eventually die, but he'll die with a shiny coat.
Adding oil is a classic trick to improve coat in an otherwise poorly nourished animal. That's all Linatone, Mrs. Allen's Shed Stop, and many other "improve skin and coat!" supplements are. You can take a really icky-looking horse, cow, etc. and add a cup of corn oil to his ration and he'll absolutely bloom.
Most owners don't know what real muscle tone looks like - they think that it means being thin or something, or they equate it with a solid dog (who is solid because he's overweight). An an example, that smooth-coat border collie in the Iams "ProActive Health" ad, which specifically talks about his muscle tone, has HORRIBLE muscle tone and makes me squicky every time I see him.
The food companies know that what people think is health is just extra oil in the skin. So they use ingredients that are nothing but byproducts (Beneful uses corn gluten meal, animal fat, brewer's rice, soybean meal, animal digest, etc; all are byproducts) because that lets them meet the AAFCO nutrient standard in the absolute cheapest way. AAFCO doesn't care whether you meet the protein percentage by using venison or using corn gluten (which is that white stuff that is produced when you soak corn in water), so companies that don't care about ingredients can meet the AAFCO standards VERY easily and using the same ingredients they put in their cattle feed or poultry feed.
Then they add fillers to make the poop a nice shape, what is basically a Flintstones vitamin to pass the rest of the AAFCO profile, and some super cheap soybean oil for a shiny soft coat, and pay Saatchi + Saatchi a couple million to hire David Duchovny to do the voice-over for the ads.
It works because most people don't know the difference. Their dog looks like a dog, so as long as it doesn't have chunks of hair falling out, and sometimes even if it does, they think their food is doing a great job. The comment most raw-feeders get when people see their dogs is "Holy cow. I didn't know a dog could look or feel like this." Whatever you feed your dog should be getting a "Holy cow," not just from visitors but from you. "Good enough" usually means the dog is actually undernourished.
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We at one point were going to feed Finn Wellness Core. It's a grain free food that is very high in protein. We opted not to for two reasons, one was that Finn was 7 months old at the time and I was concerned about giving a puppy so much protein and risking problems like Pano and two, that kind of diet works well for very active or working dogs which Finn is not. I know a Corgi breeder out here that feeds it to hers and is happy. You may want to consider something like that for him. It can be too rich for some dogs (causing tummy upset) in which case the breeder told me she will mix half grain free with half regular food. If he is losing weight then I agree that he needs more. It can take time for them to fill out and reach the appropriate size. Usually by 2 years they look more sturdy and muscular (but not overweight). I’ve seen quite a few Corgis a year or so old that look very long and lean but they all end up filling out. My Mom’s Cardi looked like that and I always joked that he looked like a water dragon with his big head and long shapeless body. He’s now just over two and looks like a mature adult.
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Kerry, when my father talks about working with field trial kennels, oh, 35 years ago, they all mixed in meat with their kibble, from what he says. And everyone I knew growing up put in scraps as well. Those old-timey kibbles like Purina were designed to provide the base vitamins, minerals, and some protein but they were not the only food source.
Newer kibbles designed to be fed alone have meat proteins much higher up on the ingredient list.
I avoid anything that says "meat and bone meal" because of the uncertainty of source that you mentioned.
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