My Pem and possible 2 torn ACLs!
UPDATE: Jake had his surgery on Tuesday the 27th and had a complete tear in the CCL as well as a blown meniscus so it had to be removed. Dr. guarantees us he can get back to his old running days but WILL have arthritis pretty badly in that leg when he is older. Dr. says that therapy will be crucial.
For more on the Tight Rope procedure, see below.
My Pem possibly torn a ligament in his back left leg in January and the vet saw him twice since then and he was on anti-inflammatories awaiting a visit to Ortho on Apr 23rd. Well, we just got back from vacation and boarding him for 6 days where he went to doggie daycare for 4 of those days and rested the other 2. I got him home, played with him a little in backyard and as he was running for a ball, he collapsed. THE OTHER LEG just gave out and it appears he TORE an ACL or ECL this time. He cannot put ANY pressure on it at all and now is trying to walk on the first bum leg. Called vet right after it happened. He's on a different antibiotic now awaiting the earliest Ortho appt I could make, Apr 13th. He now has to drag his back end around...but does show slight improvement on the anti-inflammatory. OMG, I've been in tears since Wed when it happened. My poor boy. He's only 2.5 yrs old. Anyone else go through this? What is it like if he needs surgery on both legs? Will he need a wheel chair as he heals? Therapy?
I'm so stressed out and feel it's all my fault for playing ball with him that day. The guilt is killing me.
Jill
http://www.arthrexvetsystems.com/en/mediacenter/clientinformation/u...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Markley on
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Jill--
Do not blame yourself!! If it was going to happen, it was going to happen sooner or later. Seanna just had surgery on March 30th for her left rear cruciate ligament--completely torn. Not sure what she did, was outside playing and came in not putting any weight on that leg. I have posts under my page if you want to look. Long story short, they sedated her to tell for sure, then did surgery about a week and a half later. She is doing great now--we are still in the rehab process. She starts hydrotherapy on Tuesday, and is happier than a clam that she gets to go on short 5-10 min walks on leash now. Seanna too is only two years and 10 months. Unfortunately, once one goes, around 50% of the time the other one will tear also, they say usually from compensating for the first bum leg. Seanna had the extracapsular procedure done--I have tons of info for you if you want it! Just contact me and I will be happy to help you in anyway I can!
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Permalink Reply by Jill Usher on
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Jennifer -
Thank you so much for the information! OMG, you are putting my heart at ease. It's broken. I will go to your page and give you my email address. I would love as much information as possible. Did she need to use a wheelchair in the process? We have a place up in MA (Eddie's Wheels) that does wheelchairs for Corgi's.
I just don't know what to expect on the rehab side. Is he going to be resigned to his crate for week's after surgery? Sounds like it's just been a little over a week and Seanna is already taking short walks! WOW!
I'll check out your side. Thanks again for easing my mind. That MAY be what Jakey has...vet thinks it's one of the cruciate ligaments (front or rear).
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Permalink Reply by Susan Temple on
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Jennifer, just so you know our Pembroke, Peanut, tore his acl and had the surgery when he was around a year and a half. We had gone through the surgery with our 'big' dog Buddy who was a Rotti-Husky mix THREE times (one time on one knee, the other two times on the other knee). It is true that big dogs, like Rotties, are prone to this type of injury and indeed if it happens on one leg, it usually means the other will go too. But not the case with smaller dogs. We waited and saved our pennies waiting for the other leg to go on Peanut and it never did. He's now five and has no problems at all, he's just as fast as before. Although I really worry when I see him going all out in a field... he turns so fast and I hold my breath waiting for him to come up limping! We are assuming Peanut's original tear was from an injury (I didn't see it happen, he was running through the woods in a pack). Hope Seanna is feeling better. And to Jill, I can't imagine. But like Jill said it was going to happen and do not feel guilty. Hang in there and I hope things go smoothly for you.
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Susan--
We are really hoping that Seanna's other leg doesn't go too, but of the three surgeons we talked to, all gave us a 30-50% chance that it would. They knew that it did have a genetic link in Newfoundlands (but hadn't been proven in the rest of the breeds), and was way more common in labs and bigger breeds. As far as they knew, it was either a deficiency in blood flow to the area for some reason, or because of the stress put on the remaining limb during the recovery period--said that the percentages for a repeat rupture on the other leg were the same in all breeds, not just the bigger ones....not great odds, but we're hoping Seanna's was just a traumatic rupture since she's so young, and not due to a genetic factor!
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Seanna only has torn her left rear leg so far, so she hasn't needed a wheelchair. Our vets here had her walking the night after surgery, as with humans, they try to get them up and moving as soon as they can-it decreases recovery time and post-op complications. The only difference really from the time of the injury to now, is her activity level. She cannot jump, run, twist, play--no free playing in the back yard. She must go out on a leash only for a short 5-10 minute low key do your business and come right back inside walk. We bought a wire unfoldable puppy pen (pictures on my site) at PetCo for I think $80, and it has worked great. She knows it's her "safe place" to go if the other dog wants to get rough, and knows she goes in there when she comes back inside. She's actually accepted it quite well. I have tons of rawhides, kongs, etc to keep her busy when I can watch her, the other times she just sleeps anyway. The only difficulty we had after surgery was the elizabethean collar they have to wear--she hated it and cried constantly for the first day when she had it on. But she grew to accept it. If she had torn both her ligaments, I think I would ask them about a support sling. They want them to use the limb after surgery, but I can see how it would be extremely difficult with two incapacitated limbs. The sling would give a little support to the unfixed limb while the other was mending after surgery. This whole process has really been quite easy, just time consuming. She has meds three times a day, with 5-10 minutes of heat, then 5-10 min of physical therapy (gentle stretches and range of motion with that leg), and then 5-10 min of ice---all three times a day too. I'm blessed because I only work weekends, so I have all week to dedicate to her, and my husband or kids take over on the weekend. We are also starting hydrotherapy and ultrasound sessions 1-2 times a week this coming Tuesday. It is supposed to cut the rehab time in half--which is two months of restricted activity.....
There are a lot of views on surgery vs just letting it heal on its own--especially in dogs under 30 pounds. If you let it heal on its own, it will. The problem is later in life they have severe arthritis in the joint. They will still get arthritis, even with any type of surgery, but it's less severe. So, you have to look at the age of your dog, and activity level. Seanna is not a working dog, but we do agility as a hobby, and I'd like for her to be able to return to that and be assured that her chances were low for another injury. Plus, later in life I'd like for her to be as comfortable as possible--so I chose the surgery. My vet, who I love and trust whole-heartedly, said that's what he would do if she were his dog.
So, different types of surgery--with way different costs. We went the extracapsular procedure--they essentially go in and place a monofilament (used to use fishing line), to wrap around and reinforce the knee until the scar tissue forms and takes over. The filament breaks eventually and the scar tissue is what holds the bones in place. They also have a new material they can use in this type of repair that's a "braided", and supposedly stronger material. The problem is it's new, not well tested, and they are having increased infection rates because it's a rough material as opposed to a smooth with the filament--more places for bacteria to stick to. The next surgery up the the TPLO, which here is double the cost. (Seanna's surgery was $1200, but I found a vet that would do it for $500--but that's a different story). The TPLO was quoted as $2500. Here they actually go cut bone, and then put a plate and screw in to hold the bone in it's new place, decreasing the angle of stress on the knee, and letting it heal. It's supposed to be "the" cadillac of surgeries for this injury. But, all surgeons (and my vet) said that in a smaller dog, under 30 pounds, that isn't a working dog, the extracapsular repair was fine--and would probably work just as well. The next newest surgery is a TTA, which also involves cutting bone and reducing the angle on the knee. All of the surgeries you can find on the web and read about them so you're well informed when you see the vet.
The hardest part of all this for me was just seeing her in so much pain the day after surgery, and having to inflict it with the physical therapy. But corgi's are tough little dogs, and I am amazed that she is doing so incredibly well! Once they start using their leg as a leg, and not just toe touching, they can start on the short little walks that we are up to now. It's done wonders for her mental stimulation. I actually threw the cat in her pen the other day to give her some excitement (that was before the picture where the cat is lying in there with her)...she was pouting so bad I couldn't stand it. The cat hates me now, but Seanna's my friend again :-)
Keep me informed...I will try to answer questions the best I can. If I take awhile to get back to you on the weekends it's because I'm at work...It will all be alright! Don't feel bad--it was just time to happen....
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Jennifer - thank you so much for the time you have taken to provide me with feedback. I don't check this website, either, on the weekend. Just during the week at work.
You have been so helpful and understanding!
I hope Seanna is feeling better today. Sounds like it's a slow road but it's all going to be worth it in the end!
All the best to you! Jill
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Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on
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I am so sorry you are going through this! My Sparty has a partial tear and so far we have avoided surgery. However it did cause me to do some research and found that this is being studied at several vet colleges as they really are not sure why some dogs are suseptable and some are not. I know they are looking for a heriditary link but the last I read it appeared not to be so simple. There is no way you could have known this would happen and he is really forunate you are doing everything you can to help him. Corgis are an atheletic little dog and unfortunately injuries do occur. Best of luck to you and Your pup!
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Not sure if you were replying to Jennier or me (Jill) who started the post. :) Either way...I think Jake started with a partial tear in his left leg and because he was using his right leg so much...he completely tore the right. Tomorrow is the big day at the Orthopedic. They are supposed to be one of the best here in CT! I've been there before for another dog I had that was diagnosed with Krohn's disease. They cost a fortune but I'd rather have Jake have the best care because, although not into agility or a working dog, he LOVES to herd his soccer ball around. He runs around my backyard (which is about 1/4 of an acre) like he is a herding dog. He is so unhappy right now. As Jennifer said about Seanna, he is "pouting". Thanks for the kind words. Wish me luck! I am wondering if he'll have to have an MRI first because his X-rays have not said much besides seeing the atrhophied muscle on the left leg (original injury).
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Jill-
Good luck today...let me know how the appointment goes. Seanna is doing good--too good actually! We were giving her a little leeway with a lot of watching to make sure she didn't do too much, but she is thinking she is back to normal and needs to go-go-go....so she's back in the pen pretty much full time. They said she would get to this point, where she tries to do too much too soon, so we'll see! It's getting interesting...
I'll have my fingers crossed for you guys today..:-)
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Well, everyone......horrible news. Ortho diagnosed Jake with 2 torn ACLs. Total of surgery $6,000 NOT including therapy afterwards. Nightmare and not what we wanted to hear.
Ortho manipulated the legs and took ANOTHER set of X-rays. He sent me home with instructions on how to prepare our home for surgery. We probably will schedule surgery for last week of April, first week of May.
My husband and I are devastated but thanks to a lot of you (like Jennifer) it sounds like it's going to be a lot of work to care for him but we'll get through it.
I just worry, worry, worry because we both work full-time and have no one to care for him during the day and plus we have Sheba, 105 pounds of Shepherd, that we will need to keep away from him. Nightmare.
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Oh no...I am so sorry! I was hoping for better news for you guys! I wish I was closer...I would help you out. I don't know what to say except "ouch!". How are they going to do the surgeries--one at a time with healing in between the two? Or do they just do both and get it over with? It will all work out in the end, although it will be crazy in the meantime! Maybe you could get a petsitter to come during the day and do meds and exercises? But that adds to the price...do you have pet insurance? I wish I hadn't let my husband talk me out of that one! I do have to say that the physical therapy exercises are relatively simple, and only take 20 minutes or so 3 times a day. Pretty much anyone can do them if shown, and if your dog likes them as a person....
Seanna's last two weeks have flown by, and she really is doing well. It amazes me that she really is walking normally, and trying to run and jump...it's just a matter of us keeping her quiet. Which really she has adapted to very well. I think it's really harder on us than them. We really only had to help her the first two days, and that wasn't even that bad--she could walk, but we had to take it very slow. Are they going to do the filament or the TPLO? You may be able to check around too and find a vet that does it cheaper and has just as much experience. A lot of times you are paying for the specialty--I know the vet we went with isn't board certified but specializes in orthopedics, and the difference between him and the board certified doctor was $1100. And I've been very pleased with him. It's who my vet recommended, and even though he probably wouldn't have been my first choice, I trusted his instinct, got three opinions, and went with the best that I thought we had.
You will get through it!! And your little guy will be better off in the end because you care so much for him. I will keep my fingers crossed that things go well...let me know when the surgery is planned and what's up...
Seanna started her hydrotherapy last night. Whined in the tank--she doesn't really like the water...even the peanut butter on the window didn't help. I'll take pictures and a video tomorrow and post it--it's kinda funny really. Poor thing was pretty sore this morning though.....
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Hey, Jennifer...I'm not sure why I missed your post. We decided to go with the braided filament you talked about. Our Ortho specialist said that is was the best way to go and strongest. I asked him about the risk of infection you mentioned and he said it ran between 3-8% vs the smooth filament which ran between 3-5%...so studies showing not a huge difference. Yet, the TPLO and TTA had something like a 25% infection rate because they cut into the bone. $6,000...augh...I can't believe it.
I am SOOOOOO glad to hear that Seanna is doing better. Can I ask how much it is for the hydrotherapy? Jake LOVES to swim so he'd probably do really well with that.
We may end up with a petsitter...great idea and same here on the insurance.. I wanted to get it and hubby said "No" a long time ago. Augh! I think NOW I'm going to get it on my Shepherd!!
How do you keep Seanna quiet? My biggest concern is we have ALL wood floors or tile. THey sent us home with a sheet that said cover anywhere there is wood or tile where the dog can slip. What do you do with Seanna when she is not sleeping in her pen or taking the quick short walks? Do you keep her in your family room with all of you and just don't let her run or jump?
Jill
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