Sibling Rivalry
In july we brought home rhun our corgi's brother from day one they hit it off well like they were never separated for 6 months. Well over the past month things have changed and im not quite sure how to fix it anymore.
First some background Adora had always been the independent one, never really cared to much about human affection unless it came in the form of play of course, the odd time she would cuddle it always short, the only time she would actually cuddle is the nights we allowed them to sleep in the bedroom when she curls up to us at night by our feet. While Rhun was always a big cuddle bug even with his past owners but he always left us be at night and slept on his bed beside the bed while his sister got her time with us. Which worked out perfect. Adora was a little snarky with her food when he first arrived, she would twitch her lip when Rhun finished first and wanted to check out what she was doing or had. A couple times she snapped her jaws in front of his face, but he picked up just to leave her be at meal time.
Around christmas time the balance in our house came of tilter when Adora stated to like getting affection. Shortly after that stared we dog sat my sisters beagle while she was away on a ski trip, Adora during that week had a couple spats with her brother over food, no actual mouth grabs just snapping and snarling in each others faces. My sisters dog was being fed in his crate in another room. things calmed down after the beagle went home for about a week they started doing it again over toys, then food. Last week Rhun ended up with a minor scratch under his eye after his sister and him had a spat under a chair. For the whole time he was healing whenever he would try to hid under a chair or end table to sleep he would go after him, she would go after him when he was eating when he didn't even do so much as to look at her. When he would be by the water dish. She was also becoming increasingly cuddly.
After rhun’s scratch diapered, during one of her attacks he got her back, same location, same size, minor, and under the right eye just like Rhun got. We started separating them at meal time (temporary idea to see what they would do) But Adora would leave her dish and try to go after Rhun who was on the other side of a doggie gate.
I’m tired of splitting up these spats, and now that skin has been broken and blood has been drawn i have totally had it and will not stand for it, even if it was less than a drop. In the pass we have had them summit on their sides like ceaser milan does, which they will do on their own as soon as we even lightly touch the neck so they know they did something bad. But it hasn't improved anything. Could it be sibling rivalry over the change of how the affection is distributed, we have tried to make it equal but to no really change in behavior. Oh and as soon as they both calm down with in 10 min we will see them curled up together or sleeping near each other. And getting rid of one of them will never be a option as they are inspirable, they get very upset when one leaves the house without the other. Even with all that has been happening. Has anyone had this happen before? Or any idea how I can help bring back the peace.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Beth on
-
Honestly I would start by crating them at dinner time and installing a "one dog on the lap at a time" rule and see if that diminishes it. It could be that food battles are creating tension that is spilling into other areas.
I don't allow mine to nose in each other's dishes until both have walked away. If they are bad about it you may need to keep the bowls off the floor except at feeding time. I also stand guard when I give treats; Maddie will try to nose in on Jack's and he does not appreciate it.
I don't allow toy-stealing, but if one leaves a toy for even a second it's fair game for the other.
If one is on my lap the other can't come up.
Careful rules over typical objects of conflict (toys, food, affection) mean no fights because they have nothing to fight over.
Also google Nothing In Life is Free and try following that. Other dogs may have issues over doorways, though mine don't so I let them sort that out on their own.
I AM a believer in letting dogs more or less sort it out in wide open areas when playing. I am NOT a believer in letting them sort it out over posessions in close quarters; it can, IMO, lead to crankiness and fighting.
If the bed becomes an issue, honestly I would lock them both out of the bedroom, but you may find another solution.
-
Permalink Reply by Jane on
-
I would feed them in their crates, or in seperate rooms divided by a baby gate with you standing guard.
Definitely start implementing Nothing in Life is Free if you haven't, and stick with it.
How much exercise are they getting? I would try increasing the amount they're getting and see if that doesn't help with their behavior somewhat.
Have they been through any obedience classes? A trainer or behaviorist might be better able to help you, since they can see exactly what is going on in the home and how you are reacting to it. It does sound to me like Adora thinks she is in charge instead of you.
-
Permalink Reply by Melissa and Franklin! on
-
One thing to think about too is how are you breaking up these fights? Oftentimes owners will break up the fights by picking up the less dominant dog, therefore putting it in a more dominant position and confusing the pack hierarchy. Without realizing it, you may be defending Rhun and doing things that Adora views as putting Rhun in a higher position in the pack and she may feel like she needs to fight him to get her more dominant spot back. You have to respect the pack hierarchy, and as such, always feed Adora first, take her out first, etc. That way she sees that she is still dominant and doesn't have to defend her position. Also, like others have suggested, feed in their crates and when both are done eating, let them out and pick up the bowls. If there are toys down, always make sure there are more toys than dogs and if possible have there be multiple of one type of toy (i.e. 2 stuffed animals, 2 rope toys, etc) that way there isn't much to fight about. If one starts resource guarding (i.e. not allowing the other to have the toy) then pick up all toys immediately. A behaviorist would be able to help a lot and you should do it now before it gets serious. One of our clients at the vet didn't do anything about sibling rivalry until it was too late, and the two got into such a vicious battle she couldn't separate them and it resulted in such horrible injuries that one had to be put down. Fighting is a serious issue and needs to be dealt with immediately before it escalates to more than just a small scratch.
-
Permalink Reply by Kimberlie on
-
Most of the time we just say "stop" and they both stop and look at us waiting for the next command. If that doesn't work then they both get a tap on the neck, and that snaps them out of it which point if it was to physical we say side and they both will lay on there side. Unless it was clearly adora attaching rhun when rhun was clearly not deserving of it and was not reacting to her (trying ignoring her) in that case just she gets disciplined. there are always enough toys, and for the toys rhun actually likes we have bought one for each like you said. And we make sure pairs are always in the same room as well. We do try to take away toys adora gets possessive over but sometimes she freaks out before we can see that she is guarding it. We have taught her to not be possessive with us that no matter what she must always give up the toy to us, and that the toy belongs to us. But is there any training we can do to teach adora to do that to another dog? She use to drop any toy when rhun came up, but not since this has all started/ when my sisters dog was over. Or is that something that a behaviourist would have to help us with? Could bringing a another dog temporarily (my sisters dog at christmas), disrupt the hierarchy? We have always delt with each outbusrt, It gets better (a few days of not fights or possesiveness) then gets worse again, the last straw was the first small scratch.
-
-
We do have a "one dog lap" rule not like we ever really had to impliment it because when one is on the couch with one or both of us the other one never comes up. The only time they will both be on the couch is when we get off then the other alot of the time will hop up and cuddle with the other. But as soon as we sit back down one will always hop back off, if not both.
Im just worried that feeding them in seperate rooms will not teach them to not be possesive over food. We feed meals which means they have to sit and wait till we put there dish down and tell them they can "eat". and we have always done it that when they are done the dish goes up. or if they don't eat the dish goes up and they loose there chance and have to wait till later (only happened once or twice when one isn't feeling to good). Latly when she goes after him over a toy it is while she is playing and he is just curled up on the floor not even doing anything to deserve it. Or if he is walking anywhere in the same room, even if he is walking the opposite direction as her.
There exercise hasn't changed in while we do are best to keep thier schedual the same from day-day, month to month. Even when it is frostbit freezing(to us) we bunddle up like crazy and keep up the walks and play is shorting more frequent trips. They get about 1.5-2 hours of walks, dog park and outdoor fetch. Adora get another 15-20 min worth of short trick sessions becuase she requires more mental stimulation and learning ticks is one of her favorite things, rhun gets his tricks/commmand here and there through out the day because he really isn't into learning neat tricks, he is a really lazy boy he only likes to do puppy push ups, sit, down, side, high five, sometime roll over if you ketch him in an energetic mood. Which was exactly how his dad is they even have almost identical markings.
Adora has been through obedience she started just before we go Rhun and finished just after getting Rhun. Rhun as never done formal training as he has always been well behaved and picked up the basics very fast and always obedient... till adora freaks on him that is. Even then most of the time he will just try to walk away. I dont' quite think that adora thinks she is the boss over me becuase she is quite submissive to me at least, i put my hand on my hips she lowers her head, i tap her anywhere when she is doing something she isnt' suppose she stops and if i touch the neck she will go straight on her side to the submissive pose. Could it be them fighting over alpha possision beweent them. Because rhun took on the role when we brought him home, but now that i think of it he hasn't been telling her off (giving her the evil look) as much as he use to.
As for toys it is never really a problem as rhun isn't really toy driven and only plays when we ask him to play fetch or when adora drops the toy in front of him (her ways of saying "lets play tug")
I will try what you reccomend and keep them completely seperate during feeding and limit the possibility of fights in anyway for a while. So they forget about fighting. At this point im willing to try anything i can, I will also look into a in home trainer but money is tight but as soon as we can we will get one even if things seem to be better, it couldn't hurt right.
-
-
Our breeder feeds all hers in crates, always. Many dogs don't like having another dog nearby when they eat.
-
-
Any chance maybe you could catch one of their squabbles on video? Do you always make them stop right away every time they get snarky with each other? It seems to me that a serious fight normally would take more than just a "stop" to end it. If you break them up pretty often, it could be possible that they never get to finish their "conversation" so to speak, and it has escalated into fighting. It's really hard to say without seeing it first hand. I think it would be worth the money to see a trainer, it might save you money and a lot of grief in the long run.
Joanna Kimball has a nice blog post regarding breaking up fights, it's more geared towards puppies vs. adults but I think the info is still relevant.
http://blacksheepcardigans.com/ruff/general/puppy-license-and-adult...
-
-
If it is not physical and violent i let them work it out. And my camera is broken so i can't get a video. We have done alot of training to work on "stop/freeze" and it isn't what you say it is how you say it. It help that rhun is quite submissive to us and listens really well. Outbursts are not "to the death" but close enough that i will not stand for it because you never know how it is going to escalate.
I know it has only been a day and a half but so far so good. I started doing the NILIF technique and crating them to eat. Adora definitely acted better last night. Though we did ketch her giving the evil eye to rhun as he walked passed while she was playing but i was able to correct that behavior by getting her attention off of him and getting her to move to a place she wouldn't be bothered (hopefully teaching her what she doesn't need to go after him, she can ignore and move away), she didn't go straight into and outburst, which is a huge improvement to me. Now to teach rhun to give her space when she plays. Adora also looks alot more relaxed when she eats in her crate.
Rescue Store
Stay Connected
FDA Recall
Canadian Food Inspection Agency Recall
Groups
We support...
Badge
© 2024 Created by Sam Tsang.
Powered by
