Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Heather and Ella on September 30, 2009 at 10:15pm

When we were first looking into getting a Corgi, I came across lots of Corgles (Corgi/Beagle). They were all shelter dogs, so I'm guessing that they were accidental however there were a lot of them out there. Pets should be fixed so "accidents" don't happen. Obviously this is just people seeing what would happen if X dog breeds with Y dog.
My sister-in-law bought a beagle/terrier that was breed that way on purpose, and the people breed these two dogs for several litters. Now 5 yrs. later he's a small, fat, spastic dog with cross-eyes, but he was just "too cute" as a puppy. I just wonder how the others of the litters ended up, with these breeders without a clue.

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Permalink Reply by Sunni A. on October 1, 2009 at 1:34am

I don't like designer doggie hybrids because of animal population also. What's so wrong with the original(s)? I think it's a money making ploy.

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Permalink Reply by Beth on October 1, 2009 at 6:58am

Yes, most of them seem to be from puppy mills.

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Permalink Reply by Derek on October 1, 2009 at 9:03am

There are responsible breeders who only breed healthy, AKC registered dogs together, but the problem is most people do not do the background checks for these breeds either. They walk up, take the dog, and then complain after. It does seem to be mostly a money thing. I love mutts, but not people who breed for money. I will never buy from a pet store, if I get another mutt it is a shelter dog only.

Part of me wishes everyone would just not breed their dogs for 1 year. Imagine if all the breeders, puppy mills, just everyone was forced to wait only one year to breed. Hardly the end of the world, it would not disrupt the AKC terribly, having to wait 12 months for a breeding. The people who are in it for money would have to find another way to make it, the shelters would have a large number of dogs adopted, and then after the responsible breeders could pick right back up and breed for temperment, health, and show qualities. It just makes you wonder if the only new dogs being born were those "accidents" how small the number of dogs being put to sleep would be. It will never happen, but to me it seems like a short term solution.

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Permalink Reply by Derek on October 1, 2009 at 4:42pm

By responsible breeder, I mean not puppy mill. They are using healthy dogs instead of forcing immaciated dogs who have never seen a vet to mate and put out litter after litter after litter. Even if I disagree with the breeding, I have to give credit to the few breeders I have heard about who care about their dogs and breed only a few times and never back to back litters. There is a difference, not only in the health of the pups, but in the care of the parents! For that reason I would not refer to these people as puppy mill breeders.

And I agree about the issue with people relinquishing dogs. I am just annoyed with the statistics. My mutt was dropped at a pound with his siblings because the man who owned the mother did not bother to get her fixed. They were about to be euthenized, but a rescue group came in and adopted the litter the day before. It is just frustrating!!! If people did not let their dogs run around, intact, and get pregnant ..... you can't deny that the number of unwanted animals would be reduced if we could just get owners to spay ALL the dogs that are not meant to be bred.
I am not sure how you would do that... like maybe requiring that all pet stores only sell nuetered dogs and cats??? My wish was just an idea, and one I know would never happen. But what other ideas can you come up with to deal with the problem? I would love to hear some.
I just wish there was a way. I am sick of seeing wonderful dogs die because of us.

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Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on October 1, 2009 at 5:38pm

OK Derek...maybe I'm taking this a little personal...did you mean spay and nueter? I just feel that your comment was more geared toward female dogs being fixed. About 25 years ago I had a beautiful English Springer Spaniel that I couldn't afford to get fixed right then. We had moved and could not have Sadie in the house. We built a nice pen for her BUT when she went in heat it was the other unneutered males that managed to get over the fence and breed her and yes we had pups and found them homes but we tried the best we could and we did rehome her due to not being able to keep her in our home!

Even now that I live in the country a distance from any other dogs...I still have to be very careful with my females as they can attract males from quite a distance so I'm always by their side if they're out during their season.This takes a commitment as it would be easy to let them out as usual.

I like the idea of pet stores having to have their animals neutered but since this can't be done at a young age I don't think it would work. Why can't they invent a birth control pill for dogs whether male or female????

I think alot of people just don't care...????otherwise we wouldn't be in the mess we're in with unwanted dogs/puppy mills.

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Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on October 1, 2009 at 6:28pm

Low cost spay/neuter clinics would be great! Around here we have some vets that will come to your farm and spay/neuter all farmers ferrel(sp) cats for a lower cost because of the huge problem. Even if they would do a reduced clinic 2 days every 3 months or so would help!

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Permalink Reply by Beth on October 1, 2009 at 6:33pm

Yep, I have read that in many areas, you are hard-pressed to find dogs in shelters other than pit-bull types.

I have a statistic that out of 1.4 million dogs euthanized in shelters each year, about 700k are pitbulls or pitbull types. Not that it's ok to euthanize a pit bull, but many are coming out of a certain specific culture and are taken in by law enforcement.

I periodically cruise PetFinder for Corgis in my region, and typically the closest are NJ or Ohio. They are usually either a case where the owner died or was sick, or more rarely puppy mill rescues.

As I said in my other post, a lot of it now is a surrender issue when the cute pup reaches adolescence and either starts challenging, or its genetic bad personality from poor breeding starts to show. A lot of dogs in shelters have serious behavior issues, though there are many that do not.

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Permalink Reply by Shepdog on October 2, 2009 at 12:24pm

I actually live in one of these areas.

We were up at the shelter the other day helping an owner look for her lost Cardi, and it used to be that it was all Lab crosses in our area. Now, the shelter was filled with yes -- pits and pit mixes. Forty five dogs there, and less then ten were likely NOT pit mixes.

Which is difficult - here you have dogs that really need responsible, dog-savvy owners, and a lot of insurance companies and housing associations around here ban the breed from being eligible. So, sadly enough, many of them are euthanized. Trust me, around here, trying to find a dog under forty pounds at the shelter is not happening. The shelter here works on a sliding-fee scale too, so often if there is a purebred, young dog brought in for whatever reason, the cost to adopt that dog can often be far, far higher then someone can buy a backyard bred dog for...

So, of course, that's what they do, and don't spay or neuter, thinking to breed and get back their "purchase price". I can't tell you how many times I hear that at the store. No lie. Very, very frustrating.

Low cost spay/neuter clinics are great things. I grew up in Oregon, and you could find them everywhere. Here -- the average cost to spay a dog runs between 300.00- 800.00. My jaw dropped when I moved here and realized that. Heck, to neuter a cat is 250.00. I understand that prices and insurance for vets have skyrocketed as well, but I'm constantly telling people that the local groups have vouchers for spay neuter.

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Permalink Reply by Beth on October 1, 2009 at 6:35pm

BTW, Derek, I think you are referring to "backyard breeders" and yes there is a difference in the care of the parents between a backyard breeder and a puppy mill. A friend of a friend had a male standard poodle that he bred to someone's labrador so they could get in on the labradoodle craze. The parents were both well-cared for pets, but still.....

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Permalink Reply by Derek on October 2, 2009 at 4:30pm

Actually I was referring to my neighbor's dog. She paid almost $2,000 for a cockapoo (hate the name) and the breeder used one retired AKC champion poodle and an AKC certified cockerspaniel. That is the only reason my neighbors bought the pup from her, she had all the papers, and she was a well known breeder (of pure bred dogs and with in the last 5 years of these other mutts). They tried to get me to buy one too, but I was not about to spend that kind of money ... I mean that is half of a car!

Backyard breeders (from what I know) are people who do it as a hobby, with no intention of showing, and probably no AKC certificates for any of their dogs. They all are in it for profit, it is just a difference in the treatment of the animal and of course the price.

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Permalink Reply by Darius on October 2, 2009 at 4:50pm

I think you are taking something that is theorectical in nature and blowing it out of proportion.

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