Is there a difference between a "puppy growl" and a serious warning growl?
Here's an issue I've been wondering about with Nellie: sometimes she does a little puppy growl when she is being restrained or picked up. She won't growl all of the time but usually when she really doesn't want to be picked up, etc. Sometimes these growls are accompanied by little "puppy fits" such as struggling and moaning and occasional mouthing, but never turn out to be anything serious.
She also growls when hands reach for high value items in her mouth, which is an issue I do take seriously, but not the type of growl I'm asking about. (Though any tips on how to work with that would be welcome too.)
Should I be taking these "puppy growls" seriously or are they just something she does to try and stop me from doing what I need to do?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on
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I don't really know but it seems that a puppy growl just means that her exposure to everything has not always been positive. Growling in itself is a complex behavior because you do really want a dog to warn you when they are uncomfortable. I would concentrate on getting her to like some of the things you do that cause her to growl. Always trade a treat for the high valued item for example or really pet her and use very happy voice when picking her up. Mostly I would try to give her as many very good experiances as possible when doing these things. Hopefully she will learn that you are doing good things to her.
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Permalink Reply by Nina & Nellie on
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Okay, thanks! I've started giving her a bit of cheese or a nice treat when I stretch over to pick her up, hopefully she will start to associate being picked up with something good :)
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Markley on
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I correct any growl aimed towards a human, always. A quick "sush" or "no" will do the trick. I am able to take anything from my dogs at any time, and do anything to them without them grumping. But you have to be consistent.
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Interesting. Nellie has that kind of personality that doesn't take nonsense from anybody, human or dog, so I'm not sure how well that would work with her (may escalate her growling or high-value-food aggression). Right now I try to avoid making her growl, and if she does I do say "no" and do whatever I need to do/trade with her. I never do anything really -bad- (if I take something away I give it back in a different location, for example) so that's why I wasn't sure if the growl was a serious, I'm going to kill you growl, or just a "let me see if this will make you leave me alone, and if it does I'll keep doing it".
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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A growl is a dog's' way of telling you she's unhappy. There are two schools of thoughts on growling. One is that growling at humans should not be tolerated. However, the other says that if you correct a dog for growling, you teach her to just become a dog who bites with no warning instead. Many behaviorists currently hold the latter view, and that's the view I hold myself.
First of all, Corgis are very vocal dogs and some will make grumbling noises that are not really a growl at all. Does she snarl? Pull her lips back off her front teeth? Snap at you? If you let her go, what does she do? Does she come back for attention? Wander away? Turn around and snap?IF she is given the opportunity to leave and snaps anyway, please get a really good behaviorist. But otherwise, you will probably find that if you slowly desensitize her to what she does not like, as Bev explained, she will stop growling. For holding her, don't force her until she's really fighting you. Pick her up, hold her briefly, put her down. Vary the times up so she does not know what to expect, but don't make it so that every time you pick her up it turns into a wrestling match or she'll just hate it more and more as time goes by.
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She usually doesn't snap, in fact I don't think she ever has in a non-playful way. Her growls are usually accompanied by a wary look but never amount to anything serious (no extra snapping, no biting) even if I take something out of her mouth. She's growled at her own reflection before and didn't try to attack it or anything, so maybe it was just a grumble and not an actual growl. Other than the growl her body language is somewhat tense but not aggressive or fearful.
I also have to pick her up to take her potty (patio steps) so she doesn't have much of a choice there. I usually put a treat in front of her and put my other hand underneath her chest to pick her up, and that way she usually doesn't protest as much.
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Permalink Reply by Snickmom on
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Snickers does not like being picked up or messed with, hated having her feet touched. She has been this way since she was a little puppy. She would snarl and growl and snap, but not bite. When we put her down she would give us a "sorry" kiss. When she was about 4 I learned about conditioning and starting working with her on being touched. My proudest moment was when she presented her paw to "shake". I respect the fact that she does not like to be held and only do it when necessary. We enjoy each other's company in other ways- I feed her, play with her and scratch her behind the ears. She lets me. LOL
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Wow, sounds worse than Nellie. Nellie tends to mouth and then maybe yelp, but won't go as far as growling and snapping (I haven't tried holding her paw for long enough to see >_>). She'll sometimes have a fit or try to run away when I pick her up. She's more likely to let other people do it without much of a fuss but I think it's just because of the novelty, not because she's actually okay with it. I'm working on it with chicken (one of her favorites) so she's slowly but surely getting better.
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My latest issue of Dog Fancy just came today and there is an article about dogs that growl about getting picked up and how to deal with it. Mostly suggesting that you make it an enjoyable experience using treats and working gradually towards being able to pick your dog up and then putting him back down again. Puppy growls are not very serious but will become so as she gets older so now is the time to work on her trusting you to be a pleasurable experience.
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Sounds good. She has been improving since I sometimes give her a treat as I pick her up. The trainer in class today actually heard one of her puppy growls when she was physically removing her from an area and said it was just because she wants to test her limits, so to speak. So I guess with puppy fits and little puppy grumbles it's more like she wants to see what she can growl about and get away with... As for the growling with an object in her mouth, that I really do need to work on :(
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I have an update to this: Nellie growled at me when I wanted her to drop her leash from her mouth. She normally does drop it when I tell her to but tonight she was chewing and holding on to it, and when I tried to take it from her/take it off her, she growled at me. I don't think she curled her lip but her teeth were already bared, and she did not snap at me after I took it away from her. I did give her a firm no.
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I think it might be worth your while to ask around for a referral to a good behaviorist so they can see her and interpret what she is doing. Corgis are very vocal (some more than others) and sometimes it can be hard to tell what is just "complaining" and what is meant to be a warning. And of course there is the play growl, which in puppies can sound very fierce. Any situation involving what they think might be tug games can bring out that growl.
Trainers in classes are very good at teaching you how to get your dog to respond in certain ways. But for interpreting this sort of behavior, personally I'd feel more comfortable with a certified behaviorist who has a lot of background in dog body language. The thing is, if she IS actually growling, working hard now while she's a pup will probably lead to your having a sweet adult dog who isn't a problem. But if she's just over-exuberant in her play or vocalizations, that's a whole different situation and would be handled differently.
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